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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56898 | ||
Kalos, "For the record, the fundamental Bible doctrine you are attacking is that we are saved by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone. If anyone wants to put himself under a system of works-righteousness, he will find that the doors to the Roman Catholic church are wide open." For the record, the above statement that the Roman Catholic Church teaches "works-righteousness" is a misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine. The true Catholic teaching on initial justification is easily found in the documents of the Council of Trent from which I quote here: "CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD But when the apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace." Emmaus |
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2 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | kalos | 56903 | ||
Emmaus: It is not my intention to start a debate here. Neither do I presume to tell you what your church teaches. All I am trying to do here is to show you what it is that I've been taught about Roman Catholic doctrine. I'm not here to defend what I quote. That is not my point. All I'm saying is: Here's where I got the idea that the Catholic Church taught a system of works-righteousness. Again, I am not saying that I am correct and you are incorrect. I'm just saying here is what I "thought" your church taught. Following is a quote from "CRI PERSPECTIVE CP0800 WHAT SEPARATES EVANGELICALS FROM CATHOLICS?" The entire text may be read at (www.equip.org/free/CP0800.htm). 'Another major issue dividing evangelicals and Catholics has to do with the question of justification. Classical Catholicism holds the view that salvation involves a combination of faith and infused righteousness. This means that God’s grace gives us the capability to become righteous, and enables us to perform good works by which we can receive God’s forgiveness. Evangelicals, on the other hand, believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, and in Christ alone (Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8-9). To put it in perspective, we are saved by grace, but saved unto good works.' To expand on where I am coming from, I may have been mistaken but I understood that Martin Luther taught: "that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, and in Christ alone."' This is where I am confused. I had no idea that Martin Luther and the Roman Catholic church were teaching the same thing about justification by grace through faith. Grace to you, kalos |
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3 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56909 | ||
Kalos, I would not go so far as to say Luther and the Catholic Church teach exactly the same thing about justification, only to say that the catholic Church does not teach a system of works righteouness and that it does teach that initial justification is by grace alone. The CRI presentation of the Catholic position, as you quote them, is not exactly accurate. What they seem to be attributing to Catholic teaching on initial justification is really more closely related to Catholic teaching on what Protestants call sanctification. Catholics also call it sanctification or increase in justification received. That is where works in Christ (of merit only because they are done in Christ and due to the influence of unmerited grace)come into play. The Council of Trent documents are not so difficult that they need to be filtered by CRI. They can speak for themselves very plainly. To see the full documents of the Council of Trent on Justification go to this link: http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM Emmaus |
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4 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | kalos | 56915 | ||
Part One. CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS and RESEARCH MINISTRY (www.carm.org) Council of Trent: Canons on Justification. Lutheranism was growing strong in the 1500's. In response to this, the Roman Catholic church convened a council in November of 1544 in an attempt to counter the doctrines raised and supported by the Reformers. The official opening of the council was on Dec. 13, 1545 and was closed on Dec. 14, 1563. The council delivered many statements on various subjects. These Canons have never been denied by the Roman Catholic Church. Following are several of the doctrinal statements made on Justification at the council of Trent. After each Canon are scriptures that contradict that Canon. These scriptures are linked to the KJV on CARM so you can click on them and read them in context. Finally, you will see the word "anathema" used many times by the Council. This means that those who disagree with the doctrines of this Council are cursed. In Gal. 1:8-9, the word "anathema" is used. The curse must come from God. Therefore, we conclude that according to Roman Catholicism, anyone who disagrees with the following Canons are cursed of God. The Roman Catholic church excommunicates those under anathema. In other words, excommunication means being outside the Christian church. Being outside the church means you are not saved. In spite of what Catholicism states, the Bible speaks differently. Following each Canon is a list of appropriate scriptures countering the Catholic position. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema." "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20). "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24). "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28). "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3). "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1). "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8). "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5). CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed" "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12). "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28). "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3). "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:25-27). For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (2 Tim. 1:12). Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3). "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1). (to be continued) |
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