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NASB | Acts 8:13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Acts 8:13 Even Simon believed [Philip's message of salvation]; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he watched the attesting signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. |
Subject: How do I make sense of the context? |
Bible Note: Joe I responded to this in haste Saturday evening when I had much more on my mind. I have and did apologize for my wording if you found it abrasive, MINE was not meant to be. You said, Well, you can THINK that, but is that what Paul wrote? YES I think it is. Not putting words into his mouth but from reading all of Paul writings I get the definite impression Paul believed the acceptance of salvation was the responsibility of the individual. You asked, Did you even glance at the links I posted? :) I believe you referring to Pipers writings. In truth no, but I believe I have study them in times past. However I find any time a finite mind, using finite reasoning, based on finite logic, defining a infinite God always leaves something to be desired. God as presented in the Bible is of a Just and Holy God that offered man a relationship with Himself conditional on obedience to His teachings. On every occasion Man possessing a sin nature failed to obey and found himself outside the relationship. God in His mercy provided a freedom from the effects of that sin nature in the death His son Jesus Christ, conditional on man’s acceptance of that salvation by believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. How that miracle takes place and the far reaching effects it provokes in the life/heart of the believer is mystery to me. But when finite man tries to tell me God decides who does and who doesn’t receive this salvation I say that violates the completeness of the Bible. You said to my comment, "You say their salvation is decided and my prayers which were also known about and were figured into the plan. Then I ask what if I decide not to pray does that mean their lostness was really because God didn?t choose them and my refusal to pray for them played again right into the plan?" Yes. "Either way it was God choice He just made it look like I had something to do with it by praying or not praying." You then responded to me saying, "You say their salvation is decided and my prayers which were also known about and were figured into the plan. Then I ask what if I decide not to pray does that mean their lostness was really because God didn?t choose them and my refusal to pray for them played again right into the plan?" Yes. Nonsense, again! Our prayers do not change God's eternal decree from one thing to another. God's decree is what it always has been, but at the same time He has decreed things in eternity past as answer to prayers that I will be making the rest of my life. What a tapestry this weaves, Isn’t this the quintessential question which came first the chicken or the egg? Which came first God’s plan or our prayers. I hate to say it that way but that is where your logic leads. Joe I believe God has an unchangeable immutable plan but allows us freedom of choice at various stages within the plan. God knows, those decisions that we have made and has in his infinite wisdom place set in place other events that lead to the outcome he has planned. He is the potter we are his vessels the vessel doesn’t tell the potter what to make. Joe then you said, "Or are you saying their salvation was choose by God because God knew I was going to pray for them. Then we have God not sovereign but reacting to us." Who ever said that God being sovereign meant He doesn't react to us? In time and space there is a constant, causal interaction between God and human beings. What would be unbiblical is to suggest that the causes of His reactions were unforeseen and unplanned by Him. God does not react to us He interacts with us. God’s plan is formed and it we chose not to be a part of it He has that figured out and the things in place to accomplish his goals. In your last sentence, you are saying that God while allowing Adam and Eve a choice has removed that choice from us. would you show where that is said, implied to even hinted at. EdB |