Bible Question:
Scripture ... Jer 8:5; Hos 14:4; Mat 3:15; John 4:1-2; Acts 10:43, 11:17-18; 1 Pet 3:21 .... Teacher ... I hope you are willing to learn. ID# 66906 -You said, "Nowhere in Peter's sermon, that we know of, did he mention either repentance or baptism." ... I beg to differ. Read Acts 10:43 ... sounds like repentance to me -You said, "The Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and Co. even before repentance." ... I beg to differ. Read on. -You said, "Where in the scripture does it say that had repented or that they were even saved?" ... I beg to differ. Read Acts 11:17-18 (context vv 15-18, or wider). Since they believed, were they saved, did they repent? -You said, "Where in the bible does it say being baptized with the Holy Spirit saves us? " ... What does 1 Peter 3:21 say? We know that water baptism doesn't save, as my bother Tim pointed out .. as well as other Scripture. -You said, "As is commanded elsewhere in the New Testament (Mt 28.19, Mk 16.16, Acts 2.38, 8.36, 16.15,33, 22.16) in Acts 10.48 Peter commands them to be baptized in the name of the Lord, and this, in our Lord's own words, "is fitting to fulfill all righteousness (Mt 3.15)." ... Well Jesus was talking about His own baptism, not ours in Matthew 3:15. Poor exegesis. ID# 66908 It wasn't until Christ died that John's baptism was nullified and baptism into Christ came into effect (Acts 19.1-5) ... Okay then, was the baptizing His disciples do before His death nullified, too? ID# 66669 The book of Acts records the beginning of Apostasy, the council of Jerusalem where Jews tried to make it mandatory that Gentiles needed to be circumcised to be saved. ... I beg to differ. Apostasy is seen in the OT (Jer 8:5, Hos 14:4) ... read the context There are more examples. Search Scripture. Also, I don't think you fully understand that Acts 2:38 and the conversion of Cornelius and Co. supporet each other. Searcher |
Bible Answer: Searcher, I feel you should slow down and read the scriptures I referenced in support of my position. 1. Acts 10:43 ... sounds like repentance to me Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." If you mean to say that "everyone who believes in Him" would include repentance, I would agree, but baptism would also be included in that belief. In any case neither one, in this passage, is mentioned specifically. "The Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and Co. even before repentance." ... I beg to differ. Read on. -You said, "Where in the scripture does it say that had repented or that they were even saved?" ... I beg to differ. Read Acts 11:17-18 (context vv 15-18, or wider). Since they believed, were they saved, did they repent? The intention of my comment was to point out that specifics, such as repentance and baptism, were not mentioned in Peter's sermon. Belief? Yes this was mentioned so the reader is left to make some assumptions. We must assume that Peter taught Cornelius what was needed in order to be saved. I think that God chose Cornelius because he was a "devout man, feared God, and prayed to Him always". I think that "Cornelius and Co." did repent and probably were baptized into John's baptism. The difficulty is that these are all assumptions and cannot be supported by scripture other than Acts 11:17-18. But searcher, we know that belief can mean different things. James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. Does this mean the demons are saved? Of course not. True belief in God dictates that the believer respond to God's word as he has commanded. You said, "Where in the bible does it say being baptized with the Holy Spirit saves us? " ... What does 1 Peter 3:21 say? We know that water baptism doesn't save, as my bother Tim pointed out .. as well as other Scripture. -You said, "As is commanded elsewhere in the New Testament (Mt 28.19, Mk 16.16, Acts 2.38, 8.36, 16.15,33, 22.16) in Acts 10.48 Peter commands them to be baptized in the name of the Lord, and this, in our Lord's own words, "is fitting to fulfill all righteousness (Mt 3.15)." ... Well Jesus was talking about His own baptism, not ours in Matthew 3:15. Poor exegesis Why would Peter, an Apostle, say baptism does saves us if it doesn't. Did he lie? Think in spiritual terms, Searcher. No, being dunked in water doesn't save but the spiritually minded know that as they are immersed they are "buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life." (Rom 6.4,5) Christ died bearing the sins of mankind, past, present, and future. When he spent three days in the tomb he was dead, burdened with all of that sin, and separated from God. Through God's power he was resurrected. Did he still have the burden of sin on his shoulders? No. This is what happens, spiritually, to the person who is baptized. Yes, we must repent, but repentance does not remove the sin, baptism does! And we are told this in the same passage you cite, 1 Pet 3.21 "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" If you read the previous verse in 1 Peter you will see that the phrase in vs 21 "Corresponding to that" (NASB) references Noah and his family. They were saved by water because they built the ark, which was a command by God. In like manner, we are saved by water through baptism. Accept it or deny it, your choice. In reference to Mt 3.15, yes, Jesus was speaking about his baptism being necessary to fulfill all righteousness, but was he the only one being baptized? No. John had baptized many, Jesus' disciples had baptized many, all who wanted to repent of their sins were being baptized. Vs. 16 says as Jesus came up out of the water the Spirit of God descended upon him like a dove. Is this the Holy Spirit? Did it descend upon Jesus prior to his baptism? The answers to these questions are yes and no respectively. ID# 66908 It wasn't until Christ died that John's baptism was nullified and baptism into Christ came into effect (Acts 19.1-5) ... Okay then, was the baptizing His disciples do before His death nullified, too? This question is not very clear but I will attempt to answer what I think you are asking. All baptism done prior to Jesus' death was John's baptism, of repentance. When Christ died, the new covenant became effective (Heb 9.16f). At this point, yes, all of those still alive that were baptized into John's baptism, had to be re-baptized into Christ. This is taught in Acts 19.1-5. Apostasy of the old law is irrelevant for we are no longer under the old law. Apostasy of the new law is relevant for we are under the new law. |