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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How do I make sense of the context? | Acts 8:13 | EdB | 69877 | ||
Joe You have such a warm and friendly way of saying things. Makes a person want to warm up to you and just tell you … Well back to our friendly discussion :-) You said, "I guess someone forgot to tell Paul:" No I think Paul understood what I was saying and knew people have a choice and therefore was telling us to pray they make informed choice :-) "Nonsense!" you say! How so? If God choose who is saved and who isn't from the foundations of the Earth how is my praying going to change that one way or the other? You say their salvation is decided and my prayers which were also known about and were figured into the plan. Then I ask what if I decide not to pray does that mean their lostness was really because God didn’t choose them and my refusal to pray for them played again right into the plan? Either way it was God choice He just made it look like I had something to do with it by praying or not praying. Or are you saying their salvation was choose by God because God knew I was going to pray for them. Then we have God not sovereign but reacting to us. Or are you saying they were chosen for salvation by God and God also knew I was going to pray for them so everything worked out okay. Again how did my prayers fit in the decision process. Joe I could say, “ honestly in your effort to disprove ‘all’ means ‘all’ in 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” And that ‘whoever’ means ‘whoever’ in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” gets in the way of you thinking clearly through the arguments of your opponents.” But I won’t !!!!! :-) Instead I will say Joe it is a mystery. The whole Bible is written with two things in mind God’s sovereignty and man’s choice to react to the Love God showed them. I know salvation is a miracle, that only God can do, but I also know God has given man the ability to reject the Grace once it is offered. If not then Adam and Eve had something we didn’t the right to reject God’s authority over them. Peace brother EdB |
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2 | How do I make sense of the context? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69882 | ||
"You have such a warm and friendly way of saying things. Makes a person want to warm up to you and just tell you ?" Yeah, it is probably just a sign of me "trying to change God's eternal decree" or "appear pious" like the rest of those who share my distinguished Reformed-yet-praying heritage. Maybe it is the way you form your objections that calls for the stronger response... :) "No I think Paul understood what I was saying and knew people have a choice and therefore was telling us to pray they make informed choice :-)" Well, you can THINK that, but is that what Paul wrote? "How so? If God choose who is saved and who isn't from the foundations of the Earth how is my praying going to change that one way or the other?" Did you even glance at the links I posted? :) "You say their salvation is decided and my prayers which were also known about and were figured into the plan. Then I ask what if I decide not to pray does that mean their lostness was really because God didn?t choose them and my refusal to pray for them played again right into the plan?" Yes. "Either way it was God choice He just made it look like I had something to do with it by praying or not praying." Nonsense, again! Our prayers do not change God's eternal decree from one thing to another. God's decree is what it always has been, but at the same time He has decreed things in eternity past as answer to prayers that I will be making the rest of my life. "Or are you saying their salvation was choose by God because God knew I was going to pray for them. Then we have God not sovereign but reacting to us." Who ever said that God being sovereign meant He doesn't react to us? In time and space there is a constant, causal interaction between God and human beings. What would be unbiblical is to suggest that the causes of His reactions were unforeseen and unplanned by Him. What Ephesians tells us is that God works all things after the counsel of His will. There is nothing saying that His foreknowledge and decree of my prayers are not taken into account in that Trinitarian counsel. In my worldview, I can legitimately pray that God has fixed his saving, electing love on my unregenerate family members, friends, colleagues, and students. God has already determined what He will do, but God also has known about my prayers from eternity past, and the Scriptures do indeed tell us that God delights in answering the prayers of His people according to His will, and that the prayers of a righteous man do avail much. It is not an "either-or," as you suggest. Go back and read the conversation between Prayerless and Prayerful again. What precisely do you have a problem with in that explanation? Please make direct reference to it, because I would like to know exactly what you find to be erroneous about it. "I know salvation is a miracle, that only God can do, but I also know God has given man the ability to reject the Grace once it is offered." And how do you KNOW that? "If not then Adam and Eve had something we didn?t the right to reject God?s authority over them." Well, Adam and Eve did start out with something we didn't: a nature untainted by sin and a curse from God. --Joe! |
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3 | How do I make sense of the context? | Acts 8:13 | EdB | 69888 | ||
Joe Touche, I will be more careful how I phrase my objections. I really never meant them as insults but rather conclusions I reached from position that were offered. Sorry :-) You and the forum have ran up and down this street so many times I know every bump by name. Joe the proof text you offer don't say, to me and many others, what you claim they say. Moreover your proof texts, to me and many others, do not agree with what is taught in the rest of the Bible. I read the same scripture you do and walk away with a completely different opinion. Tim dissects the scripture for you showing how grammatically the verse is not saying what you claim. Rather than agreeing or presenting a rebuttal you venture to another field and plow there. On and on it goes until we get back to the field we started in. The field is plowed the soil is rich let’s plant some seed and pray the Lord of Harvest will allow us an abundant crop. If you don’t think that is a good idea then how about, you and Tim take one passage Hebrews 28:26-31 and either agree it reads as Tim has shown it to read in the Greek, or show why Tim is wrong. Then you and Tim can go to the next verse and see what it says. Either way I'm out of it. I'll just make snide remarks from time to time :-) Just kidding I'll be careful when I simply state the conclusion your arguments leads me to. EdB |
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4 | How do I make sense of the context? | Acts 8:13 | dgregg | 69895 | ||
EdB, I assume you didn't mean Hebrews 28. What scripture did you intend to refer to? :) -David |
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5 | How do I make sense of the context? | Acts 8:13 | EdB | 69974 | ||
David I'm sorry I meant Hebrew 10:26-31 which was the scripture of primary focus of this thread. I was very rushed and should have refrained from involvement in this thread. EdB |
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