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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69758 | ||
Greetings John! Answer what? I'm assuming that you mean why some accept and some don't! We have had this conversation before. I believe that Scripture teachs that man has the freedom to choose to accept or reject the gospel. So, I don't have any problem with why some accept or reject! :-) I just have a problem that so many do reject! :-( But, back to my original question. Do these five verse indicate that the phrase 'the knowledge of the truth' only means intellectual knowledge or is this phrase synoymous with faith? I think that the other four verses clearly indicate that this phrase means much more than just intellectual knowledge. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69776 | ||
Dear Tim, Pardon me Tim, sometimes I am guilty of jumping ahead of myself. You wrote: "... Do these five verse indicate that the phrase 'the knowledge of the truth' only means intellectual knowledge or is this phrase synoymous with faith?" 1) 2 Tim. 2:25 ? ?Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,? This verse supports the fact that it requires a supernatural act of God (the granting of repentance) before it is possible to lead a person to the knowledge of the truth. This gift of repentance goes hand in glove with the the gift of faith. It is faith which enables one to believe. It is faith that transforms mere intellectual knowledge into knowledge of the truth. I belive that this verse supports your view. 2) 2 Tim. 3:7 ? ?always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.? Whats missing here? Why always learning but never acknowledging? Intellectual knowledge is present (learning) but faith (the gift of God) is absent. The implication learning is not sufficent. I do not see that that verse as a strong foundation for your view, but will not argue the point. 3) Titus 1:1 ? ?Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God?s elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness?? Paul is saying that his ministry is for the saints and also the preaching of the knowledge of the truth. It does not say that posession of that knowledge is identical with possesion of faith. The phrase' "that leads to godliness", does agree with your point. 4) 1 Tim. 2:4 ? ?who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.? This verse, when taken literaly, places regeneration prior to believing to the knowledge of the truth. This is the Reformed view of the order of salvation. Before fallen man can recieve and believe the knowledge of the truth, he must first be raised from spiritual death. Then his eyes are opened to the gospel and his new heart recieves it with joy and thanksgiving. Knowledge and Faith are supported here as well. I don't mean to be harsh, but, next verse is where your view falls flat. 5) Heb. 10:26 ? ?If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,? The topic is eternal security and your pupose for seeking agreement to your view (knowledge of the truth is synonymous with faith) is to be able to say that Heb 10:26 supports the doctrine of free will: that it is we that chose Christ, which led to our salvation, and even after our conversion, we may freely reject Him (If I have mis-stated your belief, please correct me). I DISAGREE on the basis of the same text Heb 10:26. How can I do that? Because it says that those who deliberately continue to sin are lost; there is no more sacrifice remaining. But wait! John is loud and clear and has left us an unambiguous statement of fact: 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Paul, as well, said that it was no longer he that sinned but that it was sin dwelling in him. This verse also throughs a monkey wrench into the arguement that says Heb 6 says we may reject Christ. The willful practicing of sin is an indication that one is a mere professor of Christ and not a true believer. So we see that the knowledge of truth may be recieved but not believed, as is evidenced by the unbelievers in Heb 10:26. John |
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3 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69778 | ||
Greetings John! One small clarification, my original purpose was simply to respond to a question about how the phrase 'the knowledge of the truth' was used in the New Testament! :-) Having said that, we agree that 4 out of the 5 times it is used it appears to basically be syonymous with saving faith. Why then would it mean something else in the 5th verse? My position is that words and phrases generally mean the same thing throughout Scripture. I'm very hesitant to say that this phrase means one thing in four verses, but completely the opposite in the fifth, without hard evidence to support that definition. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69782 | ||
Dear Tim, "Why then would it mean something else in the 5th verse?" Because of the testimony of 1 John 3:9. Heb 10:26 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," The author of Hebrews is describing the type of sinner that John speaks of in 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. What can be plainer? John states, in no uncertain terms, that no one who is born of God deliberately goes on sinning. In Hebrews it says that If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, then those who do so are lost. When we put two and two together, we see that those who deliberately sin after having recieved the knowledge of the truth, are, according to scripture, unregenerate. This means that these unregenarate people had recieved the knowledge of the truth but did not have saving faith. Therefore, knowledge of the truth is not synonymous with saving faith. John |
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5 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69808 | ||
Greetings John! I see where you are going my friend, but you have actually misquoted 1 John 3:9! :-) 1 John 3:9 never uses the word deliberately. It says, "All who have been born from God do not sin, because His seed abides in them, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born from God." Of course, this would open a whole different debate! :-) But, 1 John 3:9 does not use the word deliberately, so I don't see that it would change the meaning of the phrase in Heb. 10:26. I pray that you and your family have a great Christmas my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69827 | ||
Dear Tim, I pray you and yours have a merry Christmas as well! 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. You wrote: "But, 1 John 3:9 does not use the word deliberately, so I don't see that it would change the meaning of the phrase in Heb. 10:26. Really Tim, this is a very weak reponse. You must have answered as you were leaving the house, and did not have time to explain. To "practice" sin requires a conscious decision. It is not merely a single deliberate action, but infers a continuous activity in which one indulges freely. Therefore it is deliberate. I believe that my use of "deliberately" is in keeping with John's statement and does not do any violence to the text. Having cleared up your problem with the term "deliberately", I am repeating my conclusion which was.... The author of Hebrews is describing the type of sinner that John speaks of in 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. What can be plainer? John states, in no uncertain terms, that no one who is born of God deliberately goes on sinning. In Hebrews it says that If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, then those who do so are lost. Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, When we put two and two together, we see that those who deliberately sin after having recieved the knowledge of the truth, are, according to scripture, unregenerate. This means that these unregenerate people had recieved the knowledge of the truth but did not have saving faith. Therefore, knowledge of the truth is not synonymous with saving faith. Your Brother in Christ, John |
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7 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69842 | ||
Greetings John! Of course, I have to disagree my friend! :-) There is not word in 1 John 3:9 for practice or for deliberate. The verb is a simple present tense verb. The words 'practice' or 'continue' are interpretative additions because we are uncomfortable with saying that someone who is born of God is 'not able to sin'. This is why I disagree with using the assumed words 'deliberate' or 'practice' to assume that 1 John 3:9 is talking about the same kind of sin as Heb. 10:26. It is a big reach. Here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary says about this translation: ***************************************** 3:5-6. The seriousness of sin is further underscored by the consideration that Christ appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin. The Incarnation brought into the world the One who is totally sinless and who had as an objective the removal of sin from the lives of His own (cf. John 1:29; Heb. 9:28a). It follows logically from this that a person who is (?abides?) in a sinless Person must himself be sinless, for he has a sinless, regenerate nature. This is the inescapable logic of the text. But a different point is suggested by the NIV?s rendering: No one who lives (µ«?oÑ?, ?abides?) in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him. A widely held explanation of this verse is that a believer ?does not sin habitually,? that is, sin is not his way of life. However, the Greek text has no words to represent phrases such as ?keeps on? or ?continues to? or ?habitually.? These phrases are based on an understanding of the Greek present tense which is now widely in dispute among New Testament scholars (see, e.g., S. Kubo, ?1 John 3, 9: Absolute or Habitual?? Andrews University Seminary Studies 7. 1969:47-56; C.H. Dodd, The Johannine Epistles, pp. 78-81; I. Howard Marshall, The Epistles of John, p. 180). It cannot be shown anywhere in the New Testament that the present tense can bear this kind of meaning without the assistance of other words. Such a view is invalid for this verse and also for 1 John 3:9. Nor is John saying that sinless perfection must be achieved, and that those who fail to do so lose their salvation. Such a notion is foreign to John?s argument and to all of Scripture. John?s point is simple and straight-forward. Sin is a product of ignorance and blindness toward God. ?No one who sins has seen Him or known Him? (v. 6b). Sin can never come out of seeing and knowing God. It can never be a part of the experience of abiding in Christ. ?No one who abides in Him sins? (v. 6a). But though the meaning of this is not really open to question, there has seemed to be an inconsistency between such assertions and John?s earlier insistence that a believer can never claim to be without sin (1:8). The solution to this problem has been suggested by the statement in 3:3 in which the purification of the one ?who has this hope in Him? is comparable in its nature to the purity of Christ (?just as He is pure?). From this it follows that the regenerate life is, in one sense, an essentially and fundamentally sinless life. For the believer sin is abnormal and unnatural; his whole bent of life is away from sin. ***************************************** Well, I have to run now! Thanks for the discussion my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69908 | ||
Dear Tim, Let's back up to John 3:8: the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. "the one who practices sin is of the devil;" followed in v 9 stating "No one who is born of God practices sin" How, if none that are born of God commit sin, can a believer commit the sin of rejecting Christ? On it's face, it would appear that John is teaching sinless perfection. But we know that is not what he is doing because he says only liars say they have no sin! The answer to this seeming contradiction is that our perfect righteousness is imputed to us because of faith in Christ, not on account of our own actions. Jesus is also the author and finisher of our faith, To say that we may lose our faith is to say that Christ has failed and His sacrifice was in vain. If one saint may be lost then all saints may be lost. You are at least consistant in your arminian perspective, but Brother Tim, I believe you are dead wrong. If I perservere through my own efforts to the end, it follows that I will have somwhat of which to boast. Would'nt I? If not, why not? John |
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9 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69911 | ||
Greetings John! Your trying to get me to go down the dark road, aren't you? ;-) I said before that I wasn't going to go down this path, so I'll let my many previous posts speak to this issue! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69914 | ||
Dear Tim, Rather, I am trying get you down to go the "light" road. :-) I'm always disappointed when one quits the field when the contest becomes trying. I trust that this is not the case where you are concerned. Your Unanswered Brother, John |
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11 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69916 | ||
John, Tim has already capably answered your post. - Makarios |
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12 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69918 | ||
How so? | ||||||
13 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69919 | ||
I do not need to re-post what he has already written. | ||||||
14 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69921 | ||
Dear Brother Makarios, What would be your reply to my question? If a christian must maintain his position in Christ through his own efforts, would he not have earned a right to boast of his successful accomplishment of that task? As to your reminder of Tim's answer to my question; Tim has not answered to my satisfaction and I was hoping to persuade him to. Brother John |
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15 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69923 | ||
Greetings John, When a Christian is faced with trials and temptation and faces what is seen as a "test", then I believe that they, of their own volition, have to make the effort to follow through with the direction that Christ would have them to do in any particular situation. I do not believe that a Christian can live "aimlessly", without any direction, since to do so would be against the sanctification that is currently being worked out in the Christian's life. But at the same time, that sanctification does not ensure that the Christian will choose a path that leads to Christ, and that is where we have the volition to continue to follow and maintain our daily relationship with Christ. As for Tim, what answer would he give that would be 'to your satisfaction'? Blessings to you, Makarios |
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16 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69945 | ||
Thank you Makarios, "When a Christian is faced with trials and temptation and faces what is seen as a "test", then I believe that they, of their own volition, have to make the effort to follow through with the direction that Christ would have them to do in any particular situation." 2 Cor 13:9 For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. Perhaps my view stems from the fact that I am not strong. One of the verses that comforts and buttresses my assurance is 1 Cor 1:27 "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong," The Bible also says that our ability to do good is God Himself working within us: Phil 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. In fact, apart from Jesus we can't do anything! "I do not believe that a Christian can live "aimlessly", without any direction,"...Neither do I..." since to do so would be against the sanctification that is currently being worked out in the Christian's life."...I don't believe that we control sanctification ,it is God who sanctifies... "But at the same time, that sanctification does not ensure that the Christian will choose a path that leads to Christ,"... Jesus is the Good Shepherd, does a shepherd allow his sheep to destroy themselves by heading down the wrong path?..."and that is where we have the volition to continue to follow and maintain our daily relationship with Christ."...To the extent that man preserves his own position in Christ, he has that much room to boast. Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry we are so far apart on who is in control of our salvation. John |
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17 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70029 | ||
John, Most Calvinists are so far apart on "who is in control" that I really begin to wonder if they were truly saved in the first place. Perhaps if you were to actually respond to the Arminian perspective, then this exchange may be a little more interesting for me. Makarios |
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18 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70051 | ||
'Most Calvinists are so far apart on "who is in control" that I really begin to wonder if they were truly saved in the first place.' Every Calvinist I have ever encountered answered the question precisely the same way: "God." I am glad that Spurgeon was much more charitable toward Arminians like Wesley than you are toward Calvinists. "Not truly saved?" Wow. http://www.baptistpage.org/Distinctives/doctrine/spurgeon_01.htm "Perhaps if you were to actually respond to the Arminian perspective, then this exchange may be a little more interesting for me." The Synod of Dort did respond to the Arminian perspective. The Arminian Dutch Remonstrance preceded and gave rise to what have come to be known as the "Five Points." Nothing John has written here contradicts what can be found in that 1618 document: http://www.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html --Joe! |
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19 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70052 | ||
Joe, John may have been able to type something that coincides with the 1618 Synod of Dort, even though there is very little evidence that suggests that he was, in fact, quoting from that document. Before I declare all out war against Calvinism and against all who incessantly post pro-Calvinist posts, I will post some Arminian websites, in response to what you have posted, so that all of the 'innocent bystanders' on this Forum will be able to get a taste of something other than a constant, incessant stream of Calvinist dialogue.. http://gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian.stm http://www16.brinkster.com/arminian/ http://www.netrover.com/ (tilde) dontheo/arm.htm http://www.gty.org/ (tilde) phil/dabney/arminian.htm There are many more websites, at least one for every Calvinist website that you and John Reformed share. --Makarios! |
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20 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70057 | ||
Thanks for the links! The last link you posted in your fury is actually a critique of Arminianism, from the Web site of that unregenerate Calvinist John MacArthur. Seems to me you have quoted that ravenous wolf's study Bible once or twice here. I guess he is one of the "saved" ones. I promise I will stop posting Reformed sites as soon as people stop saying idiotic things like I have seen the last couple of days regarding what I believe. It is a lot easier on the server for me to give a link than post the same replies to the same misconceptions over and over and over again. I was doing it for you, man, and this is the thanks I get? ;) I would hope that if I said such irresponsible things like "Arminians only pray to appear more pious" or "I sometimes wonder if Arminians are even saved" or "Arminian folks do nothing but spend all their time proof-texting" that you would set such garbage straight, even if some folks with opposing viewpoints might have to endure such "torture." --Joe! |
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