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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69827 | ||
Dear Tim, I pray you and yours have a merry Christmas as well! 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. You wrote: "But, 1 John 3:9 does not use the word deliberately, so I don't see that it would change the meaning of the phrase in Heb. 10:26. Really Tim, this is a very weak reponse. You must have answered as you were leaving the house, and did not have time to explain. To "practice" sin requires a conscious decision. It is not merely a single deliberate action, but infers a continuous activity in which one indulges freely. Therefore it is deliberate. I believe that my use of "deliberately" is in keeping with John's statement and does not do any violence to the text. Having cleared up your problem with the term "deliberately", I am repeating my conclusion which was.... The author of Hebrews is describing the type of sinner that John speaks of in 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. What can be plainer? John states, in no uncertain terms, that no one who is born of God deliberately goes on sinning. In Hebrews it says that If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, then those who do so are lost. Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, When we put two and two together, we see that those who deliberately sin after having recieved the knowledge of the truth, are, according to scripture, unregenerate. This means that these unregenerate people had recieved the knowledge of the truth but did not have saving faith. Therefore, knowledge of the truth is not synonymous with saving faith. Your Brother in Christ, John |
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2 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69842 | ||
Greetings John! Of course, I have to disagree my friend! :-) There is not word in 1 John 3:9 for practice or for deliberate. The verb is a simple present tense verb. The words 'practice' or 'continue' are interpretative additions because we are uncomfortable with saying that someone who is born of God is 'not able to sin'. This is why I disagree with using the assumed words 'deliberate' or 'practice' to assume that 1 John 3:9 is talking about the same kind of sin as Heb. 10:26. It is a big reach. Here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary says about this translation: ***************************************** 3:5-6. The seriousness of sin is further underscored by the consideration that Christ appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin. The Incarnation brought into the world the One who is totally sinless and who had as an objective the removal of sin from the lives of His own (cf. John 1:29; Heb. 9:28a). It follows logically from this that a person who is (?abides?) in a sinless Person must himself be sinless, for he has a sinless, regenerate nature. This is the inescapable logic of the text. But a different point is suggested by the NIV?s rendering: No one who lives (µ«?oÑ?, ?abides?) in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him. A widely held explanation of this verse is that a believer ?does not sin habitually,? that is, sin is not his way of life. However, the Greek text has no words to represent phrases such as ?keeps on? or ?continues to? or ?habitually.? These phrases are based on an understanding of the Greek present tense which is now widely in dispute among New Testament scholars (see, e.g., S. Kubo, ?1 John 3, 9: Absolute or Habitual?? Andrews University Seminary Studies 7. 1969:47-56; C.H. Dodd, The Johannine Epistles, pp. 78-81; I. Howard Marshall, The Epistles of John, p. 180). It cannot be shown anywhere in the New Testament that the present tense can bear this kind of meaning without the assistance of other words. Such a view is invalid for this verse and also for 1 John 3:9. Nor is John saying that sinless perfection must be achieved, and that those who fail to do so lose their salvation. Such a notion is foreign to John?s argument and to all of Scripture. John?s point is simple and straight-forward. Sin is a product of ignorance and blindness toward God. ?No one who sins has seen Him or known Him? (v. 6b). Sin can never come out of seeing and knowing God. It can never be a part of the experience of abiding in Christ. ?No one who abides in Him sins? (v. 6a). But though the meaning of this is not really open to question, there has seemed to be an inconsistency between such assertions and John?s earlier insistence that a believer can never claim to be without sin (1:8). The solution to this problem has been suggested by the statement in 3:3 in which the purification of the one ?who has this hope in Him? is comparable in its nature to the purity of Christ (?just as He is pure?). From this it follows that the regenerate life is, in one sense, an essentially and fundamentally sinless life. For the believer sin is abnormal and unnatural; his whole bent of life is away from sin. ***************************************** Well, I have to run now! Thanks for the discussion my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69908 | ||
Dear Tim, Let's back up to John 3:8: the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. "the one who practices sin is of the devil;" followed in v 9 stating "No one who is born of God practices sin" How, if none that are born of God commit sin, can a believer commit the sin of rejecting Christ? On it's face, it would appear that John is teaching sinless perfection. But we know that is not what he is doing because he says only liars say they have no sin! The answer to this seeming contradiction is that our perfect righteousness is imputed to us because of faith in Christ, not on account of our own actions. Jesus is also the author and finisher of our faith, To say that we may lose our faith is to say that Christ has failed and His sacrifice was in vain. If one saint may be lost then all saints may be lost. You are at least consistant in your arminian perspective, but Brother Tim, I believe you are dead wrong. If I perservere through my own efforts to the end, it follows that I will have somwhat of which to boast. Would'nt I? If not, why not? John |
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4 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69911 | ||
Greetings John! Your trying to get me to go down the dark road, aren't you? ;-) I said before that I wasn't going to go down this path, so I'll let my many previous posts speak to this issue! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69914 | ||
Dear Tim, Rather, I am trying get you down to go the "light" road. :-) I'm always disappointed when one quits the field when the contest becomes trying. I trust that this is not the case where you are concerned. Your Unanswered Brother, John |
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6 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69916 | ||
John, Tim has already capably answered your post. - Makarios |
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7 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69918 | ||
How so? | ||||||
8 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69919 | ||
I do not need to re-post what he has already written. | ||||||
9 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69921 | ||
Dear Brother Makarios, What would be your reply to my question? If a christian must maintain his position in Christ through his own efforts, would he not have earned a right to boast of his successful accomplishment of that task? As to your reminder of Tim's answer to my question; Tim has not answered to my satisfaction and I was hoping to persuade him to. Brother John |
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10 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 69923 | ||
Greetings John, When a Christian is faced with trials and temptation and faces what is seen as a "test", then I believe that they, of their own volition, have to make the effort to follow through with the direction that Christ would have them to do in any particular situation. I do not believe that a Christian can live "aimlessly", without any direction, since to do so would be against the sanctification that is currently being worked out in the Christian's life. But at the same time, that sanctification does not ensure that the Christian will choose a path that leads to Christ, and that is where we have the volition to continue to follow and maintain our daily relationship with Christ. As for Tim, what answer would he give that would be 'to your satisfaction'? Blessings to you, Makarios |
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11 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | John Reformed | 69945 | ||
Thank you Makarios, "When a Christian is faced with trials and temptation and faces what is seen as a "test", then I believe that they, of their own volition, have to make the effort to follow through with the direction that Christ would have them to do in any particular situation." 2 Cor 13:9 For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. Perhaps my view stems from the fact that I am not strong. One of the verses that comforts and buttresses my assurance is 1 Cor 1:27 "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong," The Bible also says that our ability to do good is God Himself working within us: Phil 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. In fact, apart from Jesus we can't do anything! "I do not believe that a Christian can live "aimlessly", without any direction,"...Neither do I..." since to do so would be against the sanctification that is currently being worked out in the Christian's life."...I don't believe that we control sanctification ,it is God who sanctifies... "But at the same time, that sanctification does not ensure that the Christian will choose a path that leads to Christ,"... Jesus is the Good Shepherd, does a shepherd allow his sheep to destroy themselves by heading down the wrong path?..."and that is where we have the volition to continue to follow and maintain our daily relationship with Christ."...To the extent that man preserves his own position in Christ, he has that much room to boast. Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry we are so far apart on who is in control of our salvation. John |
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12 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70029 | ||
John, Most Calvinists are so far apart on "who is in control" that I really begin to wonder if they were truly saved in the first place. Perhaps if you were to actually respond to the Arminian perspective, then this exchange may be a little more interesting for me. Makarios |
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13 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70051 | ||
'Most Calvinists are so far apart on "who is in control" that I really begin to wonder if they were truly saved in the first place.' Every Calvinist I have ever encountered answered the question precisely the same way: "God." I am glad that Spurgeon was much more charitable toward Arminians like Wesley than you are toward Calvinists. "Not truly saved?" Wow. http://www.baptistpage.org/Distinctives/doctrine/spurgeon_01.htm "Perhaps if you were to actually respond to the Arminian perspective, then this exchange may be a little more interesting for me." The Synod of Dort did respond to the Arminian perspective. The Arminian Dutch Remonstrance preceded and gave rise to what have come to be known as the "Five Points." Nothing John has written here contradicts what can be found in that 1618 document: http://www.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html --Joe! |
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14 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70052 | ||
Joe, John may have been able to type something that coincides with the 1618 Synod of Dort, even though there is very little evidence that suggests that he was, in fact, quoting from that document. Before I declare all out war against Calvinism and against all who incessantly post pro-Calvinist posts, I will post some Arminian websites, in response to what you have posted, so that all of the 'innocent bystanders' on this Forum will be able to get a taste of something other than a constant, incessant stream of Calvinist dialogue.. http://gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian.stm http://www16.brinkster.com/arminian/ http://www.netrover.com/ (tilde) dontheo/arm.htm http://www.gty.org/ (tilde) phil/dabney/arminian.htm There are many more websites, at least one for every Calvinist website that you and John Reformed share. --Makarios! |
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15 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70057 | ||
Thanks for the links! The last link you posted in your fury is actually a critique of Arminianism, from the Web site of that unregenerate Calvinist John MacArthur. Seems to me you have quoted that ravenous wolf's study Bible once or twice here. I guess he is one of the "saved" ones. I promise I will stop posting Reformed sites as soon as people stop saying idiotic things like I have seen the last couple of days regarding what I believe. It is a lot easier on the server for me to give a link than post the same replies to the same misconceptions over and over and over again. I was doing it for you, man, and this is the thanks I get? ;) I would hope that if I said such irresponsible things like "Arminians only pray to appear more pious" or "I sometimes wonder if Arminians are even saved" or "Arminian folks do nothing but spend all their time proof-texting" that you would set such garbage straight, even if some folks with opposing viewpoints might have to endure such "torture." --Joe! |
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16 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70125 | ||
Joe, There are many views regarding just what exactly constitutes "irresponsible" writing on this Forum. What I call irresponsible is incessantly trumpeting the tune of Calvinism to a Pharisaical degree, and I have heard this "opposing" viewpoint all too often at this Forum. You do not see myself or another constantly trumpeting the "Arminian" viewpoint on this subject, but I am afraid that that is exactly what I am going to have to resort to if this does not change. - Makarios |
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17 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70143 | ||
"You do not see myself or another constantly trumpeting the "Arminian" viewpoint on this subject..." I most certainly do see that. Do you think I have talking to myself here? Am I starting these threads? No, I only respond to people making such claims like Calvinists are unregenerate. Take a look back through the threads to which I have contributed over the weekend, and give it a good, honest evaluation, Nolan. I will even help you by pointing you to post #69863 to see precisely where this latest "flare-up" began. And forgiveness has already been granted regarding the "not even saved" comment, even though you apparently think you are perfectly "justified" in calling all of us so. And while you are demonstrating your "brotherly love" (if indeed I am a brother), perhaps you might want to prayerfully evaluate how Tim and I can have reasoned debate on the issues of how God operates in human history without the name-calling or the textual temper-tantrum. --Joe! |
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18 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70198 | ||
Joe, I, and others, have asked you and John Reformed to bring this Calvinist dialogue to closure. We have strongly implied, suggested, and taken other measures off of the Forum to get the message across to you and John Reformed. If this incessant stream of Calvinism does not stop, then you are going to get an aggressive response! I know of no other way of getting this message across to you. If this constant badgering of Calvinism does not cease, or at the very least become infrequent on this Forum, then you must be prepared to witness what I am about to flood this Forum with. And no, you and I cannot presently be called "brothers" or be in "brotherly love." You continue to fail to recognize our pleas for relief in this matter, and I am going to unleash a response towards your posts in the only other way that is left to us, if it does not come to an immediate halt! - Makarios |
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19 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 70201 | ||
I am sorry: was there something in my last post that was in error? If so, please correct me, and I will apologize. Your attitude and statements toward me this week have been quite sinful, Nolan, and dishonor the name of the Lord and Savior we both belong to. And, whether you like it or not, we are indeed brothers in Christ, because you and I aren't the ones who determine that status. Furthermore, as I plan to celebrate the Lord's Supper this evening, I consider it important for us to become reconciled before then. 'We love, because He first loved us. If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.' --John 4:19-21 --Joe! |
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20 | some reject, others obey the gospel WHY? | Acts 8:13 | Makarios | 70255 | ||
Yes, that is true, The spirit in which I have reacted to your posts and conducted my mass gathering of information to use against your posts has been in fierce hostility, and I agree, that is sinful. However, I beg to ask: is it any less of a sin to subject this Forum to a constant 'commerical' or endorsement of Calivinism, whether you realize it or not, when you already know just how divisive this subject is? You might think that I am prideful. But I hold you with the same vice, since it is you who is showing an unwavering tenacity to jump on every opportunity to endorse your particular persuasion of Christianity, even though your view is not at the "heart" of what we share as Christians. I truly respect other people for their differing viewpoints, even though I have decidedly lost respect for the Calvinist view of election. I do not find a reflection, nor have I ever found a reflection, from you in an "appreciative" sense concerning the Arminian viewpoint. I will agree to discontinue my plans to open this debate on this Forum to an unhealthy degree, if you and John Reformed would agree to let this subject rest for a little while. And when people come onto the Forum and want to plunge into this debate again, by all means, let us direct them to what has already been written, since there is absolutely nothing new that can be said or shared from either side. If you will decide to do this with me, and to agree to bring this to some kind of closure, then yes, I will forgive you for the wrong that you have caused me, and I will ask forgiveness for my strife in return. I do not want to become the antagonist, or the "menace of Arminianism", just to prove my point. But I really see no other objective way of getting this message across. - Nolan |
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