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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | srbaegon | 69726 | ||
Hello Tim My turn. We do find in Scripture where an unbeliever is sanctified by association (1 Cor 7:14). I think the intent is that the Lord covers the unsaved spouse and children until they might believe on Him. My two mites worth. ;-) Steve |
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2 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69748 | ||
Greetings Steve! Thanks for the mites! :-) You can check my longer response to Hank, but my concern about equating the 'sanctification' of Heb. 10:29 and the 'sanctification' of 1 Cor. 7:14 is that in Hebrews it is always Christ who sanctifies. Can Christ sanctify us without saving us? Can someone (Heb. 10:29) be sanctified by the blood of Christ and not be saved? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | srbaegon | 69761 | ||
Hello Tim I could see the unbeliever "sanctified" in the same way as an unbeliever is "bought" in 2 Peter 2:1. There is a work done but not truly acquired. And yes, I could be guilty of applying my theological bent to the text. That clause is certainly difficult. Maybe if we rightly divided the Word with scissors we could fix that. ;-) Steve |
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4 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69762 | ||
Greetings Steve! Would those be C and A scissors? ;-) Of course, my next question would be not God sanctify the non-elect? :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | srbaegon | 69763 | ||
Hello Tim My synapses are shorting out. What would be your next question? Steve |
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6 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69764 | ||
Sorry Steve! I'm trying to work on a web site at the same time that I am responding to the forum! :-) You wrote: "I could see the unbeliever "sanctified" in the same way as an unbeliever is "bought" in 2 Peter 2:1. There is a work done but not truly acquired." Assuming that Heb. 10:29 is referring to someone who was sanctified, but had not truly acquired it, how would it then relate to the question of election? In other words, does God partially sanctify anyone, and does He sanctify anyone who isn't elect? My take on it is simply that he had already been sanctified, since it is a aorist passive verb, and that he has now rejected Christ's sacrifice. Oh well, back to work! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69767 | ||
"Assuming that Heb. 10:29 is referring to someone who was sanctified, but had not truly acquired it, how would it then relate to the question of election? In other words, does God partially sanctify anyone, and does He sanctify anyone who isn't elect?" Outwardly, yes. One can belong to the visible communion of saints and enjoy the privileges without being one of the elect. Think of all those Jewish males who were circumcized (set apart) but whom Jesus proclaimed to be "children of the devil." Paul says in Romans 3:1-3 and Romans 9:1-5 that all of Israel shares in the outward benefits of being in the covenant community, even if "they are not all Israel who are of Israel." --Joe! |
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8 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69768 | ||
Greetings Joe! I'm typing with one hand (holding baby), so I'll make this brief! :-) Where does the NT say that unbelievers or non-elect individuals are sanctified? Yours, Tim Moran |
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9 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69772 | ||
"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy." --1 Corinthians 7:14 --Joe! |
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10 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69774 | ||
Greetings Joe! I put the baby down! :-) So, is the sanctification mentioned in 1 Cor. 7:14 the same as: 1) Rom. 6:22 - "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." 2) Eph. 5:26 - " to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word," 3) 2 Thess. 2:13 - "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." 4) Heb. 10:14 - "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." It seems to me that all of these verses are speaking of the results of salvation, not simply an outward status. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69777 | ||
"I put the baby down! :-)" I hope you did it on purpose! The verses you cited do indeed speak of inward sanctification; my point was that one could be visibly a member of the church (or Israel, in the Old Testament), receiving the outward signs of such membership (i.e. the sacraments of baptism and partkaing of the Lord's Supper) and not be truly one of God's people. The challenge to interpreting Hebrews 10 is understanding the purpose of the writer's warning. To me, it is quite obviously (in part) a warning against apostasy. Like you, I believe that full and final apostasy from the church means that the apostate will be in hell. However, the difference of opinion we have is whether these people were ever justified in the first place. What it seems to me that we see in Hebrews 10 is an exhortation to persevere, as well a word of assurance to the saints: "But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." --Hebrews 10:39 I would consider it the "flip side" of adding faith to our good works to make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1). While God works in us so that we produce God-honoring works, He also works in us so that we will persevere. Our willing perseverance is a sign that we truly belong to God, so the Hebrews writer exhorts us to it, the outward command to which God's people will respond. --Joe! |
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12 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69780 | ||
Greetings Joe! Fortunately, I did put her down on purpose! :-) I would have to respectfully disagree my friend. I have never found the position that Hebrews is warning against something that can't really happen, very convincing! :-) Well, I've got to get to bed! I have to work tonight! :-( Merry Christmas my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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13 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69781 | ||
"I have never found the position that Hebrews is warning against something that can't really happen, very convincing!" Neither have I. I just say that it cannot happen to the elect, just to those who for a time seem to be so from their participation in the visible church. Apostasy is a very real thing, but I hold that it demonstrates the lack of justification rather than removes one from that state. --Joe! |
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14 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Morant61 | 69806 | ||
Greetings Joe! I still remember the first time I actually read the view that these warnings were "dire warnings, of course they can't happen"! I was literally rolling on the floor. I found it in some of the commentaries in my father-in-law's library. One final question if I may though! If the sanctification in Heb. 10:29 is only apparent or outward, why does the verse say that it was by the 'blood' that he was sanctified. Can it really be said of an unbeliever that they 'have been sanctified by the blood of Christ'? Personally, I just find too many things which cannot really be said on unbelievers or must be explained away. 1) The phrase 'received the knowledge of the truth', as I've expressed in other posts, is used only five times. All the other occurances appear to be synonymous with saving faith. 2) Sanctified by the blood doesn't appear to be a legitimate description of someone who only appears to be a believer. 3) Insulting the Spirit of Grace doesn't appear to be something that a unbeliever could do, especially if your Calvinist! :-) After all, how could the Spirit be insulted that someone who is unable to respond, failed to respond! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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15 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69822 | ||
"I still remember the first time I actually read the view that these warnings were "dire warnings, of course they can't happen"! I was literally rolling on the floor. I found it in some of the commentaries in my father-in-law's library." Actually, it was the avoidance of passages like these and James 2 and most of 1 John and Jesus' warnings in the Gospels that aided my growing dissatisfaction with my previous theological environment. You wrote: "1) The phrase 'received the knowledge of the truth', as I've expressed in other posts, is used only five times. All the other occurances appear to be synonymous with saving faith." I must have missed those other posts. Could you please cite just the references to the other four occurrences? "2) Sanctified by the blood doesn't appear to be a legitimate description of someone who only appears to be a believer." You would seem to be right, but my ignorance of Greek poses a problem for me working this out. The way the NASB reads (which is similar to most English translations) is "has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified." Gramatically speaking, could one be sanctified by the "covenant" rather than the "blood"? And secondly, since Hebrews makes continuous references to Old Testament typology, were those who were circumcized and part of the covenant community of Israel not "sanctified", whether they were to become scoundrels or blameless men? Could we say that the Israelite children were sanctified by the blood of the covenant? I think it is important to keep in view that the writer of Hebrews has been making a connection between Moses as foreshadowing and Christ as the true reality. "3) Insulting the Spirit of Grace doesn't appear to be something that a unbeliever could do, especially if your Calvinist! :-) After all, how could the Spirit be insulted that someone who is unable to respond, failed to respond! ;-)" Because most Calvinists believe in the idea of a non-efficacious "common grace" as well. God reveals Himself in nature to all human beings, when He does not have to. God especially revealed himself to the descendents of Jacob throughout history, giving them the Torah, the prophets, the land, provision, and the rest of the Old Testament Scriptures. This follows the logical progression of Romans 1-3. The Jew does have an advantage, Paul emphatically states, and he goes further when he is speaking of them as a nation: "God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew..." --Romans 11:2a "From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." --Romans 11:28-29 I hold that Romans 11 goes far in helping us understand Hebrews 10, because there we also find a warning to Gentile believers that they who have been "grafted in" can be grafted out again. I guess that to sum up, my understanding of Hebrews 10 ties in with my belief in the parallel between Old Testament Israel and the visible church, and between faithful members of OT Israel and the elect Christians. Outwardly, both groups are in some sense grafted in and partakers of God's grace by being members of the community and receiving revelation that others are not privy to. However, the reprobate will ultimately reject this revelation, trampling underfoot the blood of the covenant and insulting the Spirit of grace, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, etc. --Joe! |
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16 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | EdB | 69824 | ||
Joe Not to steal Tim’s thunder but here are five references of Knowledge of the Truth. By the way I do believe Tim is right on this account, I know the will not sway you but I hope it encourages Tim. :-) "1) The phrase 'received the knowledge of the truth', as I've expressed in other posts, is used only five times. All the other occurances appear to be synonymous with saving faith." I must have missed those other posts. Could you please cite just the references to the other four occurrences? 1 Tim. 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Tim. 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 2 Tim. 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Titus 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, EdB |
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17 | I have a related question for anyone... | Acts 8:13 | Reformer Joe | 69837 | ||
Thanks. --Joe! |
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