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NASB | Romans 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 7:19 For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. |
Subject: Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus |
Bible Note: Hello brother Tim, Sorry to take so long to respond. I find it interesting that in the place where I offer only the plain, actual text of scripture; you label it my “weakest point. Hmmm? You wrote: “while mentioning the adjective 'fleshy', does not say that the flesh is 'sold as a slave to sin'. It says that 'I am sold as a slave to sin'.” You miss the point entirely. Please read the text. I will quote it here. “But I am of the flesh, sold under sin.” So, I must stand by my point. It is always important to consider the text to understand what the writer is saying; not to consider the text in light of our preconceived notion. Regarding your other points: I will not quote you here in order to prevent too long a post. My numbered list correlates with your numbered questions. 1). This is an example of the false assumptions that accompany “all or nothing thinking”. To avoid this, you must consider the text in context of the passage as well as the bigger picture encompassed by Paul’s writings/teachings elsewhere. You identify this as “defeat”. Paul is not speaking of defeat. He is speaking to the continued struggle with the flesh. The war between the spirit and the flesh. To you, it sounds like defeat. But in light of the victory of Christ freeing us from the penalty of sin(which Paul adequately articulates), it is no more than a struggle in the flesh. It is better understood through the biblical teaching of sanctification. In these bodies, if we are unable to accept that we still have a struggle with sin, we are fools. Paul was able to distinguish between the strength and victory in Christ while still identifying HIMSELF, the man, as having nothing to offer toward righteousness. I would say that it is within us to commit to good works for a time; but that it is hopeless that we would maintain those works through ourselves to the completion of any true fruitfulness. 2). Chapter 8 is easy in light of understanding Paul’s approach to teaching the victory of Christ in contrast to the failure of man in the flesh regarding the law. There is no contradiction here. If anything, chapter 8 gives a clear picture that the problems of the flesh (chapter 7) do not defeat us. Furthermore, lets not forget about context. So important. Before moving on to chapter 8, back up to the last verse in chapter 7. Verse 25 does very well to ensure that Paul is referring to himself (in chapter 7) as a Christian. Lets take a look at it. Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!” “SO THEN, “I” myself serve the law of God with my mind, BUT with my FLESH “I” serve the law of sin. Actually, the argument should end here. There seems nothing more to add. Paul is plainly acknowledging Jesus as Lord and then “so then” plainly referring to the continued struggle with sin in the flesh. 3). Do you still have this question after understanding the context of Paul distinguishing between the freedom in Christ coupled with the continuing struggle in our earthly bodies? If you do, I ‘m not sure I can offer further help in this area. But I will try. Consider the restoration of an old automobile. If you first start with the mechanics, rebuilding the engine (more accurately here, removing the old and replacing it with a new one) you might think of this as the event of being saved. But the outside, the body, of the car is still rusted, dented, and may be missing some parts. Eventually you will pull out the dents, sand it down and get it ready for a new paint job. You might think of this as the process of sanctification. Finally, when all the other work is complete, you give it a new paint job. You might think of this as receiving our resurrected bodies. In his life on earth (including chapters 7 and 8 of Romans) Paul was in that stage of having a new engine (spirit). He was also in the process of having the dents removed, the missing pieces replaced, and being sanded down. The same is true for you and me. I have not arrived at my position in short order as I am sure you have not. This is an argument that can be argued well from both positions. And it has been by many who were and are far more knowledgeable of and educated in the Holy Scriptures than me and you. I hope we share one thing in common. That it is not our goal to prove ourselves right, but to know and believe the truth. I, for one, have had the truth of God prove me wrong on more than one occasion (as I may in this case some day). I would truly be a fool if my goal were to have the scriptures prove me right. That might equate to struggling against the truth. Regardless of which position/understanding is right, let these issues never plant a bitter root or divide us brother. Christ’s Love, Jeff |