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NASB | Romans 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 7:19 For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. |
Subject: Paul's evil practices Pre or PostJesus |
Bible Note: Hello Brother Tim, My comment was not meant as a "personal dig". Forgive me if it appeared as such. I will, however, stand by that comment as earlier stated while clarifying that it is not intended as a personal dig, but my observation and opinion of what is happening here. You again offer the same argument in this post that you have offered all along. You point out that no one is paying attention to the text. So let's pay attention to the text. You ask: "If is describes Paul as a believer, than what does Rom. 7:14 say about Paul?" I might rephrase the question to say, what does Paul say about Paul. My best answer: 'I am carnal' (KJV) 'I am of the flesh' (ESV). And what does Paul say regarding the flesh? It is 'sold under sin'. This, to me, is very easily understood as Paul refering to that human side of his nature. No problem at all understanding this. You wrote: "Now, to me 'sold as a slave to sin' means a 'slave to sin'. :-) So, if Paul is describing himself as a Christian then he is still a slave to sin." Perhaps this is where you are missing the point. Jesus did not save our physical bodies, He saved our soles. In these bodies (as with Paul's), on this earth, the work of Christ in us is one of spiritual doing, not a changing of our physical bodies. That comes later. You wrote: "Yet, this is not what Rom. 7:14-25 says!" My response: as demonstrated above, yes, this is exactly what 7:14-25 says. You wrote: "you say that Paul is not describing slavery to sin, but Rom. 7:14 says that Paul is a slave to sin." I argue once again, no it does not say that. I believe Paul is clearly talking about his human nature in the flesh. You wrote: "You say that Paul has been set free from the law of sin, but Rom. 7:23 says that Paul is a prisoner of the law of sin." Perhaps here is where we can gain some ground. You seem to refer to Paul in a sense that Paul does not refer to himself. What I mean is, you seem to have an all-or-nothing way of seeing Paul, and perhaps a christian person in general. Paul doesn't make that mistake here. Nor does he say that he is a prisoner of the law of sin. At least not in the way you are presenting it (context is of great importance). What Paul says (paying attention to the text) is that paul sees the law of sin working in his "members" or body in opposition to what he knows is right and wrong. Paul goes on to say; 'bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.' I think you have been stopping short when you say Paul is saying he is a slave to sin. Paying attention to the text, we must read on to at least finish the sentence, "which is in my members". Finally, you wrote: "You say that Paul 'gives in' to temptation, but Rom. 7:19 says that Paul cannot do good, but keeps on doing evil." Let's pay attention to the text my friend. Back up a verse. Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. If Paul is not clearly talking about his human nature and the flesh, then I am in far more trouble than you believe I am regarding my understanding of this portion of scripture. This passage of scripture very clearly speaks to the reality of each and every christian. That is, we are saved and freed from the law of sin. We are free from the penalty of sin. That the temptation of sin as well as the continuing to commit sin continues to be a struggle because we continue to live in physical bodies. The process of sanctification is well under way, but not fully realized. Paul very adequately demonstrates that there is nothing at all about Paul that can overcome sin. In the context of the book of Romans and Paul's teaching in other writings, He will adequately demonstrate that the answer to this apparent failing in the flesh, is the victory of grace through Christ. We both have that, whether we agree here or not. Hopes this helps explain my understanding, Christ's Love, Jeff |