Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | stjones | 54362 | ||
Hi, Bub; "Gospel" refers to The good news of God's grace - attainable in the OT by obedience to the Law and attainable in the NT and today by faith in Christ. But I give up. If you continue to ignore the clear warnings in Hebrews 6 and 10 to not abandon Christ and return to hope for salvation in the Law, what's the point of debating a single word? A passage here and a passage there do not trump the message of grace that permeates the entire New Testament. The Law cannot be kept today. Period. Not by anybody. If you cling to the Law, you are dead in your sins because you cannot keep the entire Law and you cannot atone for your sins as the Law demands. The Torah did not say to have faith in Christ; it said to sacrifice animals, grain, and drink in specific ways in a carefully prescribed setting. That leaves you on the hook for sacrifices you cannot make and it makes Jesus' death on the cross useless. And that is the very offense the writer of Hebrews was talking about in chapters 6 and 10. No thanks. I'll take grace. I hope you do too. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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2 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 54466 | ||
Dear Indiana (to keep from getting the Steves mixed up), My specific question was, “To what is the word “gospel” referring in Heb 4: 2 and 6?” Your response was: "Gospel" refers to The good news of God's grace - attainable in the OT by obedience to the Law and attainable in the NT and today by faith in Christ.” I realize it would be painful to directly answer the question in that Hebrews 3 and 4 is talking about Torah, the teachings of the LORD…..it is not talking about OT grace or NT grace, although that was certainly available in both….Heb 3-4 is talking about the "gospel" and “obedience”......how often do you see those two words anywhere near each other? Heb 3:5 “MOSES was faithful as a servant in all God's house, TESTIFYING TO WHAT WOULD BE SAID IN THE FUTURE.” (read that again) Heb 3:16 “Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not ALL THOSE MOSES LED OUT OF EGYPT?…..[18] And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to THOSE WHO DISOBEYED? (disobeyed what?) [19] So we see that they were not able to enter, BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF.” (NOTICE……”DISOBEDIENCE” IS PARALLELLED WITH “UNBELIEF”) Heb 4:1 “Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. [2] For WE ALSO HAVE HAD THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO US, JUST AS THEY DID; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.” (i.e. they were unfaithful to the gospel as evidenced by their disobedience.) Heb 4:6 “It still remains that some will enter that rest, and THOSE WHO FORMERLY HAD THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM (i.e. all those Moses led out of Egypt; 3:16) DID NOT GO IN, BECAUSE OF THEIR DISOBEDIENCE.” (disobedience to what?) Heb 4:11 “Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, SO THAT NO ONE WILL FALL (future tense) BY FOLLOWING THEIR EXAMPLE OF DISOBEDIENCE.” (it would appear that this is a warning that whatever Israel in the wilderness was disobedient to, we need to be obedient to it………then, it would be important to know what it was that they disobeyed. Reading ahead to v 12…..it must be “the word of God”……..where would one find that?). Heb 4:12 For the WORD OF GOD is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Also…….have you noticed the word “gospel” in the Revelation? Rev 14:6 “Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had THE ETERNAL GOSPEL to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people.” Notice…..it does not say the “NT gospel”, it is the “eternal gospel”……it is the same gospel that Moses preached in the wilderness in Heb 4:2,6 (the Song of Moses); it is the same gospel that Y’shua preached (the Song of the Lamb) and it is to reach every nation, tribe, language and people…….the gospel that Moses preached and the gospel which Y’shua preached, are one and the same and meant for the whole world for all time. Singing the Song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb………Bub |
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3 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | stjones | 54482 | ||
Alright, once more. You said "it would be painful to directly answer the question in that Hebrews 3 and 4 is talking about Torah". Not painful; wrong. I don't read Greek, so I seldom turn to a lexicon, but for you I'll make an exception. The Greek word translated as "gospel" ("Euaggelizo") does not mean Torah; it means good news. The author used the Greek word "nomos" when he meant Torah. They are different words with different meanings. So get out your magic marker because you're going to have to change what the inspired author of Hebrews wrote. And then you're going have to explain away the contradition caused by your substitution of words. The words the author wrote (not the words you wish he had written) include the warning that to trust in the Torah is to trample Jesus. There is nothing ambiguous about the warnings in chapters 6 and 10. And the book of Hebrews is entirely consistent with Galations. The Judaizers where heretics and those who fell for their heresy - whether Gentile or Jew - risked paying a terrible price. No Christian in Galatia, this forum, or anywhere else should be taken in by this false teaching. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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4 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 54516 | ||
Dear Indiana..... I did not say that the word "gospel" was the word "Torah". The word "gospel" in Heb 4 is referring to Torah. Hebrews is saying that Moses taught the "gospel" to the people he brought out of Egypt and then goes on to say it is the same gospel that was taught unto "us". Heb 4:2 "FOR UNTO US (new testament types) WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED AS WELL AS UNTO THEM (the old testament types)." What then was and is this gospel that both groups received? Bub |
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5 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | stjones | 54574 | ||
Hi, Bub; I see you don't hesitate to wield that magic marker. I trust that had God meant Torah instead of gospel, he would have inspired the writer to say Torah instead of gospel. Both God and the writer knew and used both words. I've aleady defined gospel for you: the good news - not the Law - the good news of God's grace. Grace is not a NT concept, neither is the good news announcing it. God's grace was revealed in the Garden. In Moses' case it was the gospel of grace revealed in the deliverance from Egypt, recalled in countless prayers, songs, psalms, and rituals. When the people turned their back on that grace (before and after they received the Law), they received the punishment the writer of Hebrews referred to. Furthermore, you will find references in Hebrews (11:13, 39) and elsewhere (Colossians 1:25-27) to the Israelites not understanding the mystery or not receiving what was promised. Jesus is the mystery, the promise, and the culmination of grace. That's good news; that's the gospel the writer of Hebrews was talking about. No twisting of words will change that. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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6 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 54577 | ||
Dear Indiana, Please see Lev 26 for the good news, the bad news and the grace of the LORD. Notice that the "good news" bottom line is "I will set my tabernacle among you....and I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people." (Lev 26:11-12). This promise of the "good news" of Lev 26 is fullfilled in Rev 21:3 practically verbatim. There's a lot of "Jewishness" going on in the Revelation. Singing the Song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb.....Bub |
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7 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | stjones | 54578 | ||
Hi, Bub; Ok; it's time to agree to disagree on this. Still waiting to hear about your sacrifices. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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8 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 54603 | ||
Dear Indiana...... Done deal Steve.....the babies are officially in bed. Bub |
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