Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Simchat Torah | 53273 | ||
Shalom Joe; Thank you very much for the welcome. I was recently introduced to this forum and have found it very interesting. It is always great to discuss scripture from differing point of views. I find it interesting that Christians have such a wide range of views when it comes to the Torah, some say they are still in effect while others say they are not. Others say they are only for the Jews and not for the gentiles. I find your belief that the moral laws are still for us today refreshing, after all who knows morality better than God himself. I actually hold to a more stricter view of Torah than most in this forum and would like to share a couple of observations from the scripture with you and others. You said in your post; For us, as post-Christ people of God, the ceremonial and sacrificial aspects of the Law have been abolished (Ephesians), because Jesus as our mediator makes unnecessary the ceremonial rituals to approach an infinitely holy God (Ephesians 2:13-16), and because Hebrews 10 makes clear that the sacrifices were but a foreshadowing of the atonement that is found in Christ alone. Let me post what Yeshua said in Matthew 5; 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. According to Yeshua, not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth are destroyed and that we are to teach them. About the sacrifices, we do not do sacrifices today because the Temple is not standing. But when it was, even Paul was there doing sacrifices as we see in Acts 21. 20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. The believers in Yeshua were still zealous for the law. The passage continues stating that these zealots for the law have heard that Paul was teaching against the law and that to prove them wrong they ask him to take part in a Nazarite vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." 26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them. To show them that he still followed Torah, he participates in the vow which included the offering which according to Numbers 6 is a male lamb, a female lamb and a ram; 13 "'Now this is the law for the Nazirite when the period of his separation is over. He is to be brought to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 14 There he is to present his offerings to the LORD: a year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a year-old ewe lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a fellowship offering, 18 "'Then at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, the Nazirite must shave off the hair that he dedicated. He is to take the hair and put it in the fire that is under the sacrifice of the fellowship offering. About your final questions. No I am not physically descended from Abraham but do call him my father. Not only does Yeshua exhibit the profile of “prophet” but he is the promised prophet of Deuteronomy 18:15. I do believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, but I find it interesting that the idea of a coming “Messiah”was a Rabbinic tradition rather than Biblical, while the Bible calls the coming one a “Prophet”. I do have a slightly different view of the Trinity than most Christians. I do subscribe to a Trinitarian view of YHWH, though my understanding of the Trinity comes from the Kabbalah (the probable origin of the Christian idea of a trinity). Shalom Joe and thank you for the great discussion. Simchat Torah |
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2 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | jlpangilinan | 53275 | ||
I am interested this part of your post You post these: Let me post what Yeshua said in Matthew 5; 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. According to Yeshua, not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth are destroyed and that we are to teach them. My answer: Christ gave us the two commandments Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. My question here is: If you love God, what is it in the law did you disobey? If you love your neighbour as thyself what it is in the law did you disobey? You post this verse: 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. My question to you is did Christ fulfill it or not? If you said yes! In what way? Did He fulfill it as what moses said? It is punishable by death if you do anything in the day of Sabbath, but Christ do healing and other things in sabbath: Mt 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him Mt 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. Did Christ disobey the law when He did those things Yes or No?, do anything in the day of sabbath is punishable by death! If you said Christ disobey the law by doing those things, He is imprudent of what He said in Matt, 5:17. If you said He did not disobey, then you agree that law can fulfill in the same way that Christ did. How about you, did you fulfill the law in what way? Are you fulfilling it like what moses taught? Take a look at this verse: Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. When you observed the law you must consistent to do it not part by part but all things including to it. My other question, did you kill you brother and sisters when you saw them do anything in sabbath day? If you really observe the law carefully you should stone them to death to follow what law said God bless, Johnny |
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3 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Simchat Torah | 53292 | ||
Shalom Johnny; As Yeshua said, all the law and prophets hang on these two commands, Love God and Love your neighbor. While many interpret this to mean that these are the only two commands that need to be followed, while others, myself included believe that the Torah teaches you how to Love God and Love your neighbor. Therefore the Torah stands, by this interpretation. In the passages that you quote about Yeshua “breaking” the Shabbat. Yeshua did not “break” the Shabbat, he was violating the additional commands of Torah that the Pharisees created “This was called building a fence around the Torah”. The Pharisees had created an additional set of Traditions that Yeshua did not recognize. When Yeshua used the terms abolish and fulfill, he is using terms used in Rabbinic arguments. To abolish the Torah means to give a false interpretation of the Torah, while to fulfill it means to give a correct interpretation. (Again, cultural context is necessary for understanding the words) Yeshua is saying that he came to give a correct interpretation of the Torah, which is the context of the remaining chapter as he continues to expand on the meanings of the Torah. For instance, the Torah says not to kill, he fulfills this command by stating that if you hate your brother, you have killed him. Because of the culture in which we live in, it is not possible to follow all of the commands of Torah such as your example of stoning someone for Shabbat violation (btw, the only violation of the Shabbat that brings the death sentence is making a fire or gathering wood). Our desire is to live in a nation where the commands of the Torah are the laws of the country, but this is not available today, not even in the land of Israel. So we follow the commands of Torah as best as possible, knowing that we cannot do them all. Many confuse the term Torah with Law, the Hebrew word does not mean law but teachings. The translation into Law is a result of the use of the Greek word nomos to translate Torah. The term law brings a negative view of Torah rather than a positive view as it should be. Law is the rules of a government binding on the people where violation is punished. Torah is the teachings of a parent to his children where violation is disciplined. Within Law there is no room for growth. Torah allows for growth. A child grows and learns how to take care of his responsibilities, just as we are to in the Torah. Shalom Simchat Torah |
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4 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | jlpangilinan | 53334 | ||
Are you a Christian or what. It seems that you love to followed moses than Christ. Did you observed all of them physically, if saw your brother gathering stick in the day of sabbath did you kill them? if you do these things we have no problem. You could be belong to a Jewish religion. Me I am a Christian, as I said everything that moses taught that Jesus dont teach anymore I will not obey. But all the teaching that moses taught, and Christ continue taught I will obey that. For example the two commandments it was given during the time of moses and Christ taught it also to His desciples. De 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Le 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. As Christian I am not justified by the law of moses. Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. As a Christian, I am belong to the new covenant that made by Christ not according to the covenant made by God with thier fathers but of Christ. If you dont believed in this verse its up to you, maybe you are belong to a not Christian religion. and with all due respect you did not answers all my question to you. God bless, Johnny |
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5 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Simchat Torah | 53340 | ||
Shalom Johnny; I love God, his Teachings, and Yeshua the Messiah with all my heart. My sole purpose is to do his will. But, I am not a Christian for the obvious reasons that you can see in my posts. I do not hold to standard Christian doctrine. You accuse me of loving Moses more than Yeshua, I do not understand how you got this when I may have only mentioned him once or twice. You may be confusing my love for the Torah with Moses. The Torah comes from God, not Moses. As Yeshua is God, then the Torah comes from him as well. You have stated that you only do what Yeshua says. He says that you are to teach all of the commands of Torah, even the least of them (Mat 5:17-19). You are correct, we cannot observe all of the commands, such as the stoning of one who lights a fire on Shabbat. Unfortunately there is no nation today that has the Torah as its body of law, until that day comes, we will not be able to live according to the Torah completely, but does this mean we throw the baby out with the bath water? If God creates something it must be good, and God created the Torah. How can observing commands given by the Supreme being himself be bad? How can a day of rest be considered evil? No once acusses Christians of being legalists or in bondage because they go to church on Sunday or celebrate Easter or Christmas, why are we considered legalists because we decide to rest on Saturday and celebrate the feasts that God designed? I also belong to the New Covenant of Yeshua as the covenant at Sinai is completed, obsolete and fading away. But remember what Jeremiah said about the New covenant in 31:31-33; "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD."This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my Torah in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. About the scriptures you posted; Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Agreed, no one is justified by the Torah but by the grace of God. Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Correct, the old covenant is passed away. Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. This is a quote from the scripture I posted above, The new covenant is not the same as the covenant at Sinai. Shalom Simchat Torah |
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6 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | jlpangilinan | 53348 | ||
Your not a Christian, so we have no problem. Your point of view is different than mine so be it. You post this "You have stated that you only do what Yeshua says. He says that you are to teach all of the commands of Torah, even the least of them (Mat 5:17-19)." If I do what Christ said so what is it I am not going to do? I think you contradict yourself here. What is it anyway, I did disobey when I going to love God with all my heart, soul, might and etrength did I break the law when I did this? this question I raised in my previous post and you ignore to answer. What is it in the law I did not disobey if I am going to love my niehbor as I love my self? As I said to you Christ fulfill the law in the deep meaning without contradiction and I will try to follow that. The law said, thou shall not kill but it also has the teaching tom kill anyone that do things in the day of sabbath. You said:"How can observing commands given by the Supreme being himself be bad? How can a day of rest be considered evil? No once acusses Christians of being legalists or in bondage because they go to church on Sunday or celebrate Easter or Christmas, why are we considered legalists because we decide to rest on Saturday and celebrate the feasts that God designed? I am not saying that the command of the supreme being is bad I did not mentioned this, you accused me here in the things that I never committed. You must hate paul because what he was written is the one i am using to discuss with you. Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. I am not the one saying this my friend, it is the apostle of Christ, are they crazy when they write it? If you decide to rest on saturday its okay, God rest on Sabbath day, then you should hate Christ because He decide to do works on Sabbath day. He heal sick He gathered corn to eat with His desciples on sabbath day. You said "You are correct, we cannot observe all of the commands, such as the stoning of one who lights a fire on Shabbat." If you cannot observe all in the law, meaning you leave the other undone, let my God Christ call you hypocrites! Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. God bless, Johnny |
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7 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Simchat Torah | 53386 | ||
Shalom Johnny; You said; What is it anyway, I did disobey when I going to love God with all my heart, soul, might and etrength did I break the law when I did this? this question I raised in my previous post and you ignore to answer. The Torah shows us how to love God by keeping the Shabbat, the feasts, abstaining from certain foods, etc, your relationship with God is between you and him just as mine is between him and I. This is how I show love to God, I do not know how you do it, but I would be curious. You said; I am not saying that the command of the supreme being is bad I did not mentioned this, you accused me here in the things that I never committed. You must hate paul because what he was written is the one i am using to discuss with you. You are correct and I apologize for that, I am continually accused of this and made the statement without thinking. I guess a better question is if I do follow there Torah is there any harm in it? You said; Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. You also said; I am not the one saying this my friend, it is the apostle of Christ, are they crazy when they write it? I agree with this, the covenant at Sinai is replaced by the new covenant. You said; f you decide to rest on saturday its okay, God rest on Sabbath day, then you should hate Christ because He decide to do works on Sabbath day. He heal sick He gathered corn to eat with His desciples on sabbath day. Yeshua never broke the Shabbat command, he simply violated the additional laws that the Pharisees added to the Shabbat, these are what he had a problem with. You must recognize that Yeshua followed the Torah perfectly, as to be without sin (especially before the cross) meant that you did the Torah perfectly, as sin in defined by the Torah. Shalom Simchat Torah |
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8 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | jlpangilinan | 53442 | ||
Observe you tora my friend, and make sure that you observe it completely so My God will not call you hypocryte! I am a Christian and I am not justified by law but by Christ if you are not beieved it is you problem. Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. If you tora has been faultless, we dont need Christ to save our sins. I am a Christian and your not you are not going to accept the teaching of Christian! so continue what you are doing it up to you. I am tired of it! God bless, Johnny |
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