Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Simchat Torah | 53448 | ||
Shalom Johnny; I think you completely misunderstood bubbatates statement. Your stated that you only do what Yeshua taught, Yeshua never taught anything on beastility. Which according to your statement, Christians are not bound to the laws concerning beastility. I think the question should be why didn’t Yeshua teach that beastility was wrong? Because he didn’t have to, God already taught on that. Yeshua didn’t teach about kashrut (dietary laws) because God already did. You know its funny, when we say we don’t eat pork, people laugh and call us legalists, but when you someone says I don’t eat horse, no one bats an eye. Btw, horses aren’t kosher either :-). If you look at all the commands found in the Torah, Christians except all of them and do them except for any that sound “Jewish”. Btw, I am curious why you sound so hostile in your posts to me and Bubbatate? Shalom Simchat Torah |
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2 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | stjones | 53469 | ||
Greetings, S.T. and Bub; Bestiality isn't a sin because the Law mentions it; it's a sin because of Genesis 1 and Romans 1. God's intent is clear from these passages. God's law is written on our minds and in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), not in the Torah. We have the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us to discern it (John 14:26). Jesus told his followers to follow his commands (John 14:21), not the commands the Father gave Moses. And we have the grace of God and the shed blood of Christ to cover us when we make a mistake in knowing or following them (see, for example, the New Testament). Is there anything in the Law about posing for pornographic photos? Or taking them? Or selling them? Or creating computer-generated kiddie porn? How about eating peyote buttons to get high? Growing, harvesting or selling opium poppies? Smoking hash? Giving a kid a cigarette or a little nip of whiskey? Or hacking into someone else's computer just for kicks? Writing a computer virus? Buying or selling a lottery ticket? Most Christians will agree that most of these are sins with no Law to guide us. Not meaning to speak for Johnny, I would guess his hostility is directed toward the heresy you are promoting. Read Galatians for some real hostility toward Judaizers. You can't expect Christians to welcome the spectre of works-righteousness or the heavy yoke of the Law. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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3 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 53581 | ||
Greetings back at ya, Steve, I really didn’t want to make an issue out of bestiality……I just used it as an illustration in addressing Johnny’s remark. However, I would like to respond to some of the points that you made. You said: “God's law is written on our minds and in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), not in the Torah.” Your statement doesn’t compute since “Torah” is the Hebrew word used in Jer 31:33 so your statement would actually read……”God’s Torah is written on our minds and in our hearts, not in the Torah.” It doesn't make sense. You said: “We have the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us to discern it (John 14:26).” We need discernment on a lot of the Torah in many cases…..i.e. how do we accurately apply it to our 21st century culture……e.g. “Do not kindle a fire on the Sabbath”. Some discern this as do not use your stove, microwave or car (internal combustion engine),etc. My personal take is that building a fire was “work” lo those 4000 years back and since the focus of the Sabbath is no work, it is not the fire per se which was a no no but the work involved in kindling same. As for the Holy Spirit’s role concerning the Torah……We have the gift of the Holy Spirit to enable us to do Torah (Eze 36:26-27). You said: “Jesus told his followers to follow his commands (John 14:21), not the commands the Father gave Moses.” Are you saying that the Father and the Son are on different wave lengths? The Father gave the commandments to “His people” through Moses. Are you one of “His people”? What are you going to do with Rev 12:17, 14:12 and I Jn 2:3-6; 3:21-24; 5:2-3; II Jn 1:4-6, all of which, with specificity tell us to obey the commandments of the Father. What did Y’shua mean when He said, “Do the will of My Father”? (Mt 1:21; 12:50). If Y’shua and the Father are one, the commandments they promote are identical or else they are a house divided. You said: “And we have the grace of God and the shed blood of Christ to cover us when we make a mistake in knowing or following them (see, for example, the New Testament).” I remember the “everybody makes mistakes” crowd in defending Bill Clinton’s adultery……locking your keys in the car is a mistake…adultery is intentional sin. There is no grace nor sacrifice for willful sin, including the blood of Y’shua. See I Jn 3:9; 5:18 and especially look at Heb 10:26-31 below and the comments following. HEB 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Notice…..The writer of Hebrews quotes Torah to make his point…..if Torah was just for “Old Testament” Hebrew types….why is he quoting it to make a New Testament point? Also, what he quoted was Dt 32:35 and 36 which is included in the “Song of Moses” of Rev 15:3. The “Song of Moses” is the Torah….see Dt 31:22 and 24. You said: “You can't expect Christians to welcome the spectre of works-righteousness or the heavy yoke of the Law.” That is not my expectation by a long shot, I know that Christians love their doctrines…..but keep in mind….I am not spewing my opinions…..I am just asking you to consider scripture which has been long overlooked by most Christians. Y’shua taught “do” and “teach” the commandments in the Torah (Mt 5:19)……not for brownie points but because it’s the law of the land in the Kingdom. As to “the heavy yoke of the Law”, it’s ironic that Ps 119 extols the magnificence of, exuberant joy in, and love of the Torah, yet most Christian’s see Torah as “a burden/a heavy yoke”. Christians will enthusiastically sing from Ps 119:105 “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.” (The Amy Grant version, of course……sorry, couldn’t resist). In the context of Ps 119…..Christians are thereby singing, “Your Torah is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.” In song they profess Torah and in doctrine adamantly deny it. Thanks Steve…….Bub |
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4 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | Reformer Joe | 53600 | ||
What Christians (and the Jewish believers) saw as a heavy yoke is the ceremonial aspects of the Law and the sacrificial requirements that came with violating God's moral commandments. It is God's moral commandments for our behavior which David embraces in Psalm 119 (and in Psalm 19 as well). It is the moral will of God which makes one wise; it is God's moral commandments what enlighten the eyes. And it is with the Spirit that we are not only able to follow God's moral commands, but also to love them. --Joe! |
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5 | self control / spirit control | 1 Cor 9:25 | bubbatate | 53638 | ||
Dear Joe, I’m afraid I cannot agree with your segmenting of the Law into moral and ceremonial facets, especially in relationship to Ps 119……. the word “all” shows up 7 times in Ps 119……as in, for instance, Ps 119:160 “ALL your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.” (see also Ps 119:6, 13, 86, 128, 151, 172). EVERY “thus saith the LORD”, according to Ps 119:160, is not only true but true for all eternity. You said, “It is God's moral commandments for our behavior which David embraces in Psalm 119 (and in Psalm 19 as well).” In what verse is this “moral” only aspect stated? As for “What Christians (and the Jewish believers) saw as a heavy yoke is the ceremonial aspects of the Law and the sacrificial requirements that came with violating God's moral commandments.” That statement assumes that the first generation Christians were going around breaking moral commandments and it was such a hassle to do the sacrifice thing…….there’s an easy way to avoid the hassle……don’t sin. I’m sure going to prison is a “burden” for someone who breaks our civil laws…….but I don’t, on a personal level, see going to prison as burden……I choose not to break the law….ergo the burdensome penalty will never affect me. I also notice that you mention Christians AND Jewish believers……..were there two separate factions? Under what category is the commandment, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."? (Mt 22:37; quoting Dt 6:5). Moral or ceremonial? Or is there yet a third category? Also notice that Deuteronomy (Dt 11:1,13,22 etc.)goes on to define loving the LORD as keeping ALL His commandments…….would Y’shua have meant anything less when He quoted Dt 6:5? Did John, in IJn 5:2-3 mean just some of the commandments? Unless otherwise specifically substantiated.....the only safe way to go is to go with ALL. Ex 20:6 speaks of “showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” This statement is included in the first of the ten commandments…….but in that He uses the plural, "commandmentS", He cannot only be referring to the first commandment, but to the nine following as well…..including the 4th commandment, which I have noted has come up recently on the forum for discussion. Also…….are the “thousand generations” who are to love Him and keep His commandments” just Old Testament generations? I think not, do the math. Thanks Joe…….Bub |
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