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NASB | John 5:19 ¶ Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 5:19 ¶ So Jesus answered them by saying, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself [of His own accord], unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever things the Father does, the Son [in His turn] also does in the same way. |
Subject: First Century Second Coming? |
Bible Note: Hi Xerxes: I must say, I appreciate you stance of neutrality in this issue. It is a difficult thing to remain neutral when playing the “devil’s advocate” toward both sides. However, I’m not convinced that you do not hold to either side. I believe you’re just not telling us which side you hold to and that’s fine. There are only two choices of six that are viable. Non-viable options: 1. Jesus never came in the first place 2. Jesus came and died but didn’t rise from the grave (and variations to this idea) 3. Jesus is/has come right now, right now, right now, right now to infinity 4. Jesus wont be coming back Only viable options: 1. Jesus has come back (at any time between His ascension and right now, right now, etc) 2. Jesus will be coming back. (at some time between right now, right now, etc and eternity future) The question is which side the scriptures support the most (including the allegorizing). You must include possible allegories because Jesus himself allegorized many things 1. You are the salt of the earth 2. You are the light of the world 3. You must eat my flesh and drink my blood 4. He said to Peter “Feed my sheep” Jesus was a carpenter, but I suppose He could have had a flock of sheep somewhere. 5. Much of the book of Revelation which Jesus gave is allegorical. I can’t image a real beast with seven heads coming out of the sea and people bowing down and worshipping it. But people will do strange things. Do we have to understand all the scriptures pertaining to this issue (Which by the way is pretty much most of the Bible? There are two basic themes in the scriptures 1. That God created the world and no one else did and 2. The redemption of that world He created and which man had lost.) I dont think so. Nor does mean that we won’t change views if we find more evidence later that supports the opposite view. I at the current time of writing this hold to the premil position. Part of my reasoning behind holding to this view is the fact that God has set a pattern of dealing with man on and in the physical realm. 1. He revealed Himself in it Rom 1:20 2. His judgments upon the nations including Israel (OT) 3. His mercies and favor upon those who call upon Him 4. Christ’ death and resurrection. 5. The expectation of a physical reigning of the messiah on the throne of David by all the prophets. 6. The expectation of the creation itself of redemption (Rom 8:19-23) I have to conclude that Jesus will follow the precedent that God set and His return will result in many physical / creation changes including but not limited to: 1. The lion and the lamb side by side 2. The child able to put its hand on a vipers nest 3. All tears be wiped away 4. Sickness done away with 5. Creation restored 6. Etc. But since the time of Adam to today the world is still obviously still under the curse (crime, sickness, death etc) I must conclude that Jesus has not come back yet. And in my view the scriptures and history better supports the premil view. Now concerning this portion of Josephus, you inserted into one of your posts “Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius [Jyar], a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding the cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, “Let us remove hence.” I am assuming this is referring to around 70AD when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and that you are suggesting that this could represent Christ’ return upon the clouds. There is another explanation for this vision. In the OT we see several instances where angelic hosts were to provide protection to individuals and cities. I believe it was Elisha who prayed that his servant’s eyes would be opened to see the angelic host protecting them from an enemy. One angel destroyed 185,000 Assyrians during Hezekiah’s time. In Dan 12:1 we see that Michael stands guard over Israel. It is possible that this vision was one of seeing the angelic host which was stationed around the cities of Israel for protection being withdrawn so that the Roman army could come and fulfill what Jesus spoke about the destruction of Jerusalem. And those that saw this vision were the same ones that rejected Christ and were seeing the result of that rejection. It may not have anything to do with the Lord’s return. Just another possibility. Blessings to you |