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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | Fatherof4 | 127709 | ||
Angel. Thank you for the well referenced reply. Re-read those scriptures. Doesn't it strike you that these events were to come upon THAT very generation in the first century? By what basis do you split Matt 16:27 and 28? It seems to me that these are one and the same event. Supported by Luke 21:31-33 in regard to THAT generation. You say no date is set, but the scriptures you cited seem to demonstrate that to the original audience that THEY should be expecting Jesus return in Judgement upon their OWN generation. I don't see any reason here that we should be still expecting these events to occur sometime in our own generation or in a future generation. It Jesus contempories who were to "keep watch." The apostate Jews were literally "cut to pieces' in AD 70. "the secret power of lawlessness" was already at work in the first century, and the lawless one was already being held back at that time. Which tells me, again, that these events were all first century events. |
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2 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | JCrichton | 127721 | ||
Hi,Fatherof4! Part 1 of 3 It is set up that way by Christ Himself! Let's review Matthew 24: Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." (Matthew 24:1-2) Historically, this happened on or about 70 AD--though it was not in the direct time frame, it did happened within the lifetime of some of those who heard Jesus’ Word. The disciples just got wind of an exceptional event--one that will crush the Old Testament religious establishment (destruction of the Temple). Their curiosity peeks and they want to know more!: As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3) We would think that Jesus would offer a clear cut answer which would include a specific date or at least a general “during the “x” decade, of the “y” century, during the reign of “z.” But, Jesus is not a diviner and He did not come to reveal all truth!: Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,‘ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:4-14) These verses, 4 through 14, offer a synopsis of wondrous signs and events, but there’s no chronological date! The most crucial bit of information is found in verse 14: the Gospel will be preached to all nations, then the end! There are places where the Gospel has been imprisoned; where it has been distorted; where it has been outlaw altogether… this proves that His Second Coming has not happened yet! As though it has not been confusing enough for the disciples to ascertain a clear response (remember, they asked a compound question: a) “when will this happen,” b) “what will be the sign of your coming,” and c) “the end of the age?”), Jesus throws at them an ancient prophecy (Daniel 9:27; 11:31-32; 12:11-13): "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. (Matthew 24:15-22) The most complicated part of the above prophecy? “the abomination that causes desolation.” There has been one single event in the life of Israel (the Jewish people) that has caused just such desolation: the destruction of the Temple--I mean, not even the atrocities committed by the Nazi’s genocidal machine during WWII had such an effect on Israel, as a people, as the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. |
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3 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | Fatherof4 | 127902 | ||
Thank you for the confirmation that the Destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 fulfilled Matthew 24:1-2. The disciples understood the destruction of the Temple was synonymous with Jesus returning in judgement and the end of old covenent age. Their follow-up question was not about some other event, but they were simply asking "When is this going to happen, it's not a three part question with three separate answers. You're reading too much into it. The language is actually quite plain. You believe that the end could not have come because the Gospel has to be preached to all nations. However, have you read: …I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. (Rom. 1:8) But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." (Rom. 10:16-18) …All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth. (Col. 1:6) …This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. (Col. 1:23) At least Paul seemed to have believed that this had been already accomplished. I will go as far to say the Great Commission of Matthew 28: 16-20 was also fufilled in that time according to this line of logic. “The abomination that causes desolation” is not a complicated part of prophecy. Compare Matt. 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand— with Luke 20:21 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near." .. and the surrounding passages. "Jerusalem being surrounded by armies" IS "standing in the holy place “the abomination that causes desolation”." When was Jerusalem surrounded by armies? In the siege leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus is not trying to be vague. He is telling “GET OUT OF JERUSALEM WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS!” |
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4 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | JCrichton | 127911 | ||
Hi, Fatherof4! Truly there's hardly anything else that I can add to my previous post... I suggest to you to read further... the then known world did not cover America (North, South, Central), Canada, China, Japan, Australia, Russia... why are these nations missing from the various missions described in the book of Acts? Christ Death and Resurrection was not as fulfillment for those who were in front of Him physically but for all of humanity: 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. John 17:20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, Had the Good News been brought to the whole world during the lifetime of the Apostles then surely we would not be learning about God through Scripture and through any form of ministry: Hebrews 8:9-11 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. Read the Epistles... you will find that the Apostles were truly expectant of the Second Coming within their lifetime... as they matured, in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they understood that it was not to be so: 2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. Friend, if Scripture does not convince you, I certainly cannot. God Bless! Angel |
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5 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | Fatherof4 | 127957 | ||
Angel, do you not think that (Rom. 1:8, Rom. 10:16-18, Col. 1:6, and Col. 1:23) demonstrate that "..this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations.." (Matthew 24:14a) was fulfilled? I'm not necessarily saying that Jesus sacrifice was not for all people for all time. The point I have been trying to make is that the Second Coming or "the end" described in Matt 24:14 came in the first century. In 2 Peter 3, I don't see any indication that they were to believe that the Second Coming was still far off beyond all of their lifetimes. This letter was a note of encouragement to THEM. God was "not slow" in keeping his promise. God was being patient with THEM. He write “my dear friends since YOU are looking forward to this…” (emphasis mine!) The last days were transpiring in the first century… Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. |
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6 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | JCrichton | 127960 | ||
Hi, Fatherof4! You seem to forget that the major form of transportation for the disciples was "foot-work." There was no mass media, no rapid transit system, no next day delivery, no printshop, no copiers... sometimes the Apostles and disciples would stay in an area several months or even years... It is interesting to note that you refuse to listen to the Apostles when they tell us that the Lord does not delay in vain, but that He is patient wanting all (as many as will believe in Him) to be saved... you refuse to accept that to the Lord 1000 years is like a day... Again, I do not see any reason to continue this thread: I cannot accept your views that Jesus' Second Coming is past history... and you refuse to accept Biblical fact that tells us that He is yet to come! May the Holy Spirit enlighten us into understanding the Truth: Maran atha! God Bless! Angel |
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