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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | Xerxes | 128155 | ||
Good afternoon everyone. I have read through this line of posts, and I have some questions for both sides. 1) Those arguing against the 1st century return: Jesus said his coming would be like a thief in the night, like lightning flashes from west to east, like in the days of Noah or Sodom, that they wouldn't know until it was too late. Is it possible that He came, and no one documented it because the nature of the return was such that no one but certain elect recognized it for what it was? Is it possible that He came, but no one saw it in the strictest sense as we expect because, like lightning flashes, the coming was over and done before they knew it, bringing in the New Kingdom with the destruction of Jerusalem? 2) Those arguing for a 1st century return: Do you have reasonable explanations for the post-apostolic writings that still expected His return? Besides the obvious wrath God took upon Jerusalem which is not conclusive to the return, only to judgment, do you have any other reason to believe the return took place? 3) Those arguing against a 1st century return, do you have an explanation to refute the coincidence that Nero Caesar counted in Hebrew equals 666 by the Hebrew numbering system, he persecuted the Christians for 42 full months (Dec. 64 - May 68), died by the sword, was one of seven rulers (Julius, Antony, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero), one of which was slain (Julius), that Vespasian and Titus came to make war on Israel, speaking with the authority of Caesar while not being Caesar, and all this in accordance with Rev. 13? 4) Those arguing for a 1st century return: How do you reckon the thousand year reign spoken of in the Revelation without spiritualizing it into something metaphorical (barring any obvious context to suggest it should be viewed as such)? 5) Those arguing against a 1st century return: What explanation do you have for the plain statements in Matthew posted in this thread without spiritualizing them into something metaphorical to suggest that "here now" language is intended to represent "there then" meaning without any reasonable cause outside of premillenialism theology? 6) Those arguing for a 1st century return: What is your explanation of the two witnesses in Revelation that die for 3 1/2 days and are resurrected and taken up to heaven? As this is a preliminary to the return that doesn't take place until later in the book, do you have a reasonable/historical explanation for these two persons without spiritualizing them as metaphorical to substantiate a preterist theology? 7) Those arguing against a 1st century return: Do you have an explanation for the coincidence of approximately 3 years 7 months from the beginning of the seige around the passover of 66 until the destruction of the temple and Titus standing in the Holy of Holies in Tammuz/Ab of 70, and then roughly another month until the complete taking of Jerusalem in Elul of 70, all in accordance with Daniel who described 1290 days from the ceasing of the normal sacrifice (which happened after this last passover due to famine, then destruction of the temple proper) to the abomination that makes desolate standing in the Holy Place, then another month until upper Jerusalem was taken? 8) Those arguing for a 1st century return: If the return has happened already, and we are in the kingdom of Christ on earth, can you give an explanation why there is still horrible crime, etc., when God is supposed to wipe away all tears, and that there would be no more death? Please be objective, or stop discussing the topic. Some of you are already stepping over the line into insults, and that is not becoming of Christians. Xerxes |
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2 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | JCrichton | 128213 | ||
Part 2 of 2 This is how Jesus' Second Coming will be--no one will be telling his neighbor, "I've seen something wonderful that no one else has!" In one instant we will all be convicted of His Coming--those of us who are alive, as the Apostles noted, and those who are dead: 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. The Apostles and disciples did think that Jesus’ “Coming” was within their lifetime… but, through revelation of the Holy Spirit, they recognized that to the Lord 1000 years is but a day! The Lord will certainly Come, and we (all who are alive at this precise time as I am preparing this reply) are witnesses that He has not yet come! Maran atha! God Bless! Angel |
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3 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | Xerxes | 128226 | ||
Listen Angel, you aren't saying anything I haven't heard before. Nor are you saying anything that I potentially disagree with. I expressed clearly that I am not disposed to either position. Personally, I see holes in what you are saying. I don't know if you read all my posts on this subject. I gave a reasonable explanation on the "coming in clouds" that you have not acknowledged, and I see no reason to express it a second time. Also, your Corinthians example is clearly talking about the dead being glorified in new bodies because the bodies we have now are mortal and cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Now, in part one, I feel the need to say that I resent you implying that I am "luke warm," and will thus, according to the scriptures, be spewed out of Christ's mouth. Being undecided due to a lack of understanding about the Revelation does not make me "neither hot nor cold." My walk with God is plenty strong, and I am an active Christian. I am by no means complacent or lazy about what I believe, what I study, or what I do with the knowledge I have. Confusion over apocalyptic literature is not an uncommon thing, and I would exhort you to refrain from judging others in regard to such literature. I recognize and acknowledge your position on the matter, but the preterist position makes a strong case as well. Both sides have been studied and researched by scholars for hundreds of years. Preterism is not a minority sect. It is just as prominent as its rival, and I choose not to put on blinders against either position. I would exhort you also to purchase some books on the subject of preterism so you may learn in greater detail what the position is, what sources they take from, how they explain certain key passages, etc. A good book I can recommend is "Before Jerusalem Fell" by Dr. Kenneth Gentry. There are also a few by Dr. David? Chilton. (You'll have to double check that first name). A Revelation study is not as cut and dry as you might like to make it. Each person is disposed to a particular view based on whichever argument seems most credible to them. You find the premillenialist argument most credible. Dr. Gentry, a pastor with a degree, and Dr. Chilton, also a pastor with a degree, find the preterist argument more credible (this is not to imply or suggest that you are not qualified or certified, only that Drs. Gentry and Chilton are not blowing smoke because they read two passages and twisted them, but are in fact well read and have degrees to prove it). I appreciate the time you've put into your reply. I read it thoroughly, gave it consideration, but have determined that you are either unwilling or unable to discuss this topic objectively, so I will put an end to it here before it turns to strife. Again, I thank you for the time you put into your response. It was not ignored. Xerxes |
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4 | First Century Second Coming? | John 5:19 | CDBJ | 128232 | ||
I just read an article that was about, What is Preterism and is it Biblical? Part 2 I read it from the web site that follows, parousia@solagroup.org Thought you might be interested, CDBJ |
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