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NASB | Revelation 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Revelation 13:8 All the inhabitants of the earth will fall down and worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the Book of Life of the Lamb who has been slain [as a willing sacrifice]. |
Subject: Whose will causes a believer to sin? |
Bible Note: Greetings John! You just keep putting statements out there that I can't resist! :-) It must be preordained! ;-) Let me keep it brief though. 1) Romans 8:28: In your last post you wrote: "I did not mean, by citing Romans 8:28, to imply that it proved pre-destination." But, in a previous post (87983), you wrote: "That God causes all things to work together for good. All means all, does it not? Sin is a thing that occurs in our lives, does it not? Then God has predestined that sin...not for evil...but for good." This is the statement I was reacting to my friend. Rom. 8:28 does not say that God predestined sin. It says that God all things for good to those who love Him. There is a world of difference between taking something evil and using it for good and preordaining something evil would happen. 2) Acts 4:26-28: Allow me to clarify my friend. I believe that God has done what He wants, not just that He can. Where we differ is on what Scripture actually says He has done. Based on the Scripture verses we have been discussing I say that He HAS died for all and HAS shown mercy to all. :-) Secondly, even if your understanding of this verse is correct (in the sense that man's will played no part whatsoever), it still doesn't prove (as you state in your last post) that "EVERYTHING that has or will occur" has preordained. It would only proof the the murder of Christ was preordained, since that is the only act specifically mentioned in this verse. The word 'all' isn't used here! ;-) 3) Finally, concerning the two wills of God. Arminians also believe in two wills of God. We believe there are those things which God has decreed WILL occur and that there are things which God wants to occur but may not because of the freedom He has given us to obey or disobey Him. So, God wants all men to repent, but He has not determined that all men will in fact repent. I have no problem with that view of two wills. However, if like Calvin, one denies that man has any free will, then one is forced to believe contradictory statements. A) God does not will man to sin. B) God wills man to sin. If every act is a result of God's ordained plan, then God must be the author of sin. Adam and Eve did not have a fallen nature, so one cannot simply claim that they 'willing' sin in accordance with their sin nature. God must have MADE them sin. This is why Arminians ridicule, as Jonathan Edwards claimed, this view of God's will. One cannot believe that God 'ordains' every action and choice, and not have Him responsible for sin. He created us. He ordained our choices. But, He is not responsible for our choice? I used to write computer programs. This analogy would be like me writing a program which has encoded within it the formula (2 plus 2 equals 3), and then claiming that it is not my fault that the program can't add 2 plus 2! ;-) That horrible free will that you reject solves the problem quite nicely though. He creates us with the ability to choose. We disobey Him and choose wrongly. Thus, we are responsible for our choice. To illustrate this with the computer analogy, many people are working of AI in computers. Suppose that I wrote a program which could actually learn on it's own. Over the course of time, the program incorrectly learned that 2 plus 2 equals 3. Now, I can blame the program and not the programmer. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |