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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | JibbyJee | 88600 | ||
Greetings retxar! Hey, bud, there's no need to get defensive. First off, I am only asking questions for the purpose of gaining information about WHY your statement was made. I need to ask questions because that initial statement was VERY broad and open to interpretation. We all must be as concise as possible and be open to explaining WHY we believe as we do rather that dismissing someone else simply because we disagree with them. You say the text means what it "simply says". So what is that, exactly? I mean, I believe the verse in it's own context "simply says" something completely different that you do. So who's right? Shall we debate the context of John 6:35-45 exegetically? Regarding your postscript: The passage has nothing to do with so-called "invitations". It says "drawn". And all who are drawn are raised up to eternal life. If you aren't raised up to eternal life, you weren't drawn. This passage is speaking directly of man't INABILITY and the purpose of God's SAVING GRACE. God doesn't invite to save. God saves. Can you show me how you can come to another conclusion from Scripture? In Christ, Jibbs |
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2 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | retxar | 88628 | ||
The only way I could come to another conclusion is if the text actually said what you are saying it says. I will need to see John 6:44 turned around to say what you conclude it means, instead of what it actually says in every translation I know of. Then I would not need an interpretation, I could just read what it says. That’s what I do now, and most of the time it works well. What translation are you reading from that says "All who are drawn are raised up to eternal life"? All I have checked has it the other way around; All who are raised up are drawn. Are you trying to say that's the same thing? How come the rich young ruler, who was indeed drawn to Jesus, did not come to Him? Why did Jesus offer eternal life and forgiveness to someone who it was not available for? Why did Jesus make forgiveness available to those who crucified Him, when He knew all would not accept that forgiveness? |
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3 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | JibbyJee | 88746 | ||
Greetings retxar: Judging by the disrespectful tone of your reply, my conclusion is that you've made up your mind what the passage says and no one else could possibly be correct. Nevertheless, I will respond to your post. I use the ASV, KJV, NKJV, NASB, and NIV. All of them, in my opinion of course, clearly teach that all who are drawn are lifted up to eternal life in the CONTEXT of John 6:35-45. So, I will assume you are using one or more of those translations and therefore the subject is clearly NOT translation, but rather INTERPRETATION. To you, it simply says whatever (you've yet to explain anything) and to me it simply says all who are drawn to Christ by the Father are raised up to eternal life. So, should we figure out who's interpretation is "simpler" and declare the victor? I should hope not. Here's how I understand the verses in their own context. Perhaps that will give you a bit more meat to chew on instead of just throwing a flurry of rhetorical punches. Joh 6:35 Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. Joh 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.((Are all men given to the Son??)) Joh 6:38 For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:41 The Jews therefore murmured concerning him, because he said, I am the bread which came down out of heaven. Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how doth he now say, I am come down out of heaven? Joh 6:43 Jesus answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. ((This is clearly connecting "DRAW" with their "BELIEF". Notice it says "no one CAN come", signifying inability, yet in spite of the inability the father DRAWS him. And Jesus clearly shows (notice the punctuation, a colon) that this man that was DRAWN will also be raised up on the last day. This raising up cannot be divorced from the context of previous verses such as John 6:37 or 6:40, nor can it be seperated from the following verse:) Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. I don't understand how ANYBODY can say these verses are NOT talking about CHRIST doing the will of His Father--raising those who are drawn to Him to eternal life. Other than the strong traditions that sometimes blind us from the truth. If you care to give an explanation of John 6:35-45 from your point of view, please do so. I would love to hear your side in detail. In Christ, Jibbs |
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4 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | retxar | 88958 | ||
This will be my last response to you on this subject. I don’t have a lot of time to spend here, especially if what I say is not being read anyway. You keep insisting that I have not stated what John 6:44 says. From my 2 previous post to you I will repeat what I have already said (and I really mean it this time!). From Post 1: “I believe it means simply what it says and that is that all who come to Jesus are drawn to Him.” From Post 2: “All who are raised up are drawn.” Or just read it from the WORD: Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Coming to Jesus requires one to first be drawn to Him, but being drawn to Him does not necessitate that one come to Him. Don’t take my word for it, read a true life example of this phenomenon in Luke 10! What else are you wanting me to say, bro? P.S. Your have took a couple of jabs at me accusing me of being “defensive” and “disrespectful” toward you. I have pretty much ignored them as your have not qualified any of those accusations with any specifics. Most of the time generalities such as this are just attacks and condemnation from the enemy to just create strife, so I try not to be drawn into that. I am still ignoring them, but I apologize to you anyway if there has been some misunderstandings between us (neither one of us knows the other). If you have any specifics you want me to address, I will be glad to do so. God bless you bro, retxar Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. |
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