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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Whose will causes a believer to sin? | Rev 13:8 | Morant61 | 88154 | ||
Greetings Joe! Thanks for the response! I remember our discussions in the past and I recall that you and I pretty much see eye to eye on this point. However, John seems to deny that man can make any free choices whatsoever, including Adam and Eve. I would agree with how you summarized the creation. Of course nothing took God by surprise! I even believe that there are times when He overrides human will to accomplish His plans. For instance, some bad guy might try to kill me or my family and God zaps him! :-) I would never seek to imply that man has unlimited freedom of will. But, I do believe that God has made us free moral agents. So, Adam and Eve sinned, not because God 'made' them do it, but because they choose to do it. The reason I started this particular topic with John though is that he appeared to by saying that every choice and action is a direct result of God's will. By the way, I was reading about Jehu the other day. If I recall correctly, there was an interesting passage where he had some people buried at a particular location because he remembered God's prophecy against that family and he wanted to make sure it happened like God said. :-) What an example of human and Divine wills working in harmony! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Whose will causes a believer to sin? | Rev 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 88156 | ||
"I would agree with how you summarized the creation. Of course nothing took God by surprise! I even believe that there are times when He overrides human will to accomplish His plans. For instance, some bad guy might try to kill me or my family and God zaps him! :-)" That is the clearest form of God's intervention. What amazes me about God's providence is the scenario where the bad guy holding your family at gunpoint is hit by the drunk driver coming around the corner. God provides the means for the drunk driver's sin and allows him to sin and orchestrates the events so that his sin is your salvation. "However, John seems to deny that man can make any free choices whatsoever, including Adam and Eve." I'll let him speak for himself, but most in our theological camp do not hold to the initial depravity of Adam and Eve. And, like you, I believe that we all have limited freedom. However, the boundaries and extent of that freedom and what we will actually do with that freedom is already factored in under the umbrella of God's decree. In this way, I believe that God micromanages sin (allowing only those which will ultimately result in His glory). The bondage of the will that I believe in is precisely that: centered on what an unregenerate human being can WANT to do. An atheist can always choose to say no to this sin or that one; what he can't do, in my view, is choose to do that which is good. The Heidelberg catechism gives the best summary (IMO) of what the Bible teaches is a good work: "Question 91. But what are good works? Answer: Only those which proceed from a true faith, are performed according to the law of God, and to his glory; and not such as are founded on our imaginations, or the institutions of men." That is the limitation that I put on the unregenerate. Otherwise, the only thing standing in the sinner's way is means and opportunity and personal preferences and distastes (which themselves stem from a depraved will). And all of these are ordained and managed by God, even the "region of freedom" to carry out one's desires that both sinner and saint receives. --Joe! |
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