Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | John Reformed | 87304 | ||
Hello EdB, Question: If we are saved by grace, and not anything that we do (good works), how then can we forfit our salvation by something we do (an evil work)? How does this doctrine glorify God? Does it not have the opposite effect? Poor God... He trys as hard as He can to save people but most of time He fails. Even after they are saved He can't keep them saved. How powerfull can this God be if He can't even succeed in getting what He desires? That is not the God I worship! The God I worship is the God of the Bible. God-Almighty. Whatsoever He decrees comes to pass. Ps 148:6 He has also established them forever and ever; He has made a decree which will not pass away Deut 32:4 "The Rock! His work is perfect, Who works within us? Who started this work and whose is it to finish? Deut 31:6 "Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you." David was not afraid of losing his salvation: Ps 73:26 My flesh and my heart may fail, But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Sorry... I got carried away. John |
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2 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | EdB | 87308 | ||
John "If we are saved by grace, and not anything that we do (good works), how then can we forfit (sic) our salvation by something we do (an evil work)?" John first you primary premise is wrong, we do have to do something we have to believe. John 3:16 Secondly I never said evil works. I said if we break or reject relationship with Jesus. We stop depending on Him for our salvation. It is not a matter of poor God anything. God can do anything He desires, He has decided rather than force us to love Him, He allows us to respond to His love, the love He first showed us. God held out his hand it is a matter whether we chose to take it or not. Hebrews chapter 6 and 10 tells we can withdraw it once we have taken hold. If we do however God then withdraws his hand. Why is that so complicated to you? We see this pattern through out the Old Testament. God reaching out and men and women taking hold or rejecting God's hand. Is not the New Testament a continuation and fulfillment of the Old. Why suppose God decided to begin forcing Himself on believers now? God offered salvation freely and without cost to us. It a gift. We can accept it or reject it. We can treasure it or squander it. Why make it so hard? If we can’t lose our salvation explain men we both have seen, men serving God in good times and bad. Then completely walking away from God denying the faith, calling God a liar, and rejecting Jesus ever lived. John 3:16 says we must believe yet they say they don’t. Are you saying their still saved? How if they don’t believe. Or they were so fooled they only thought they were, and lived like they were. If that be the case can any of us be sure we are saved? If so how? These men thought they were saved, they were trusting in God for their salvation. EdB |
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3 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | John Reformed | 87318 | ||
Hi Ed, Thanks for your response. First I would say that our response to God's calling is not something we do but something that God has done in us. Eph 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Note that "we are His workmanship". What does that mean? Does it simply mean that He created us or does it have a deeper implication on our lives. I believe the latter. For the verse goes on to say "created in Christ Jesus". We christians then are a NEW creation. Not only that, but God has already decided what works we will do and when we will do them. They were prepared beforehand! I must disagree Ed with your dismissal of the rejection of the faith as not qualifying as an evil work. If that's not evil, nothing is. Fortunately no true believer is capable of such a heinous act of treason to his King! When asked about this very thing John said (1 John 2:19) "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. It is true, as you said, that God does not force people to believe in Christ. I agree with you 100 per cent! But I also believe that the Bible teaches, that until God calls them, no one is even interested in salvation. Rom 3:9-11 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; OK. Now we have to ask if no one seeks God, how come some become saved? Where does this new desire come from? Is it buried down deep in the hearts of all people? Not according to the Bible it is'nt. Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And, Matt 15:19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. But someone might say "Sure, I know that the Bible says these things, but surely that does not mean that there is not even a speck of faith in the heart, does it?". The Bible says YES , not one speck of faith. I say this because saving faith is a spiritual attribute and unregenerate men are spiritual corpses. "Dead in sin" is what the "good book" calls man. There is a world of difference between DEAD and SICK. But some would say that I am wrong to think that God alone has saved me. They believe that God merely makes the gift available and that it is the will of man that frees God to lift his lifeless body from the grave of spiritual death. Does this mean that God forces men to believe? NO! He frees them by raising them to spiritual life, so that for the first time, they have the DESIRE to believe. Once we are "born from above" our eyes our opened, our deaf ears are unplugged, we recieve the Holy Spirit and God proceeds to mold us into the image of His Son. He is the Potter and we are the clay. Who would want it any other way? Not me. Thanks Again Ed, JohnReformed |
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4 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | EdB | 87319 | ||
John Your back to plowing your old ground again. I heard all this at least a hundred times from you and I don't buy it now anymore than I did when I first heard it. I understand the Potter and the clay I understand that salvation is a miracle but I also read the rest of the story. God made salvation available to everyone it is clearly stated in John 3:16. Now if you want to linger on a few verses that really don't define doctrine at all and overlook the verses that are essential doctrine okay. As I have repeatedly said you will never convince me of predistination and I can only believe that through my prayers God will one day bring you out of this teaching. EdB |
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5 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | John Reformed | 87674 | ||
"As I have repeatedly said you will never convince me of predistination and I can only believe that through my prayers God will one day bring you out of this teaching. EdB" Hi Ed, Feel free to ignore this post. I know I can be a real pest at times :-). But I was looking through some recent posts and felt compelled to ask you a question regarding your prayers on my behalf. Why do you pray that God would "bring me out", from what you see as false teaching, if in the end He is powerless in the face of my own "free will"? It seems to me, that if I am in error and God desired to correct my error He could simply open my eyes to the truth! Just like He did when I first heard the gospel. I already had heard the gospel before, but did not believe it. Years later I heard it again and my ears were opened. Should I thank God for opening my ears or should I congatulate myself for having become wise in the meantime? You tell me. God Bless Ed, John Reformed |
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6 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | EdB | 87683 | ||
John You keep missing what I say, Salvation is a miracle and without the working of the Holy Spirit you can never find God. However I believe God enables everyone at least once in their lives to accept or reject Salvation. I believe God picks the time and place, and I believe He knows the results therefore in sense it is preordained. What I don't believe is that some are born and are NEVER given a chance for salvation. To me that is to close to the hateful and fatalistic Islamic teaching of kismet. When I pray for God to bring you out of the this false teaching it is for you to realize Jesus died for the sins of the world not just those chosen to be offered salvation. I don't doubt your salvation what I abhor is your teaching that God would allow a created being to roast in hell because it was never elected. Never given the chance that you and I were given. That my friend does not align with the rest of scripture. Please don't make me regret responding to your inquiry. As I said we have both heard it all. EdB |
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7 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | John Reformed | 87719 | ||
"Please don't make me regret responding to your inquiry. As I said we have both heard it all." EdB Hi Ed, Obviously we have not heard it all :-) Case in Point: "what I abhor is your teaching that God would allow a created being to roast in hell because it was never elected." I have always said that, those who go to Hell, go there because of their sins. And that God would have been perfectly justified to administer His justice upon every single child of Adam. The reformed doctrine says that God chose (for His own reasons) some to recieve mercy and the rest to recieve justice. As The Creator and as the Judge of the Universe, He has every right to do as He has done. If you still say "That my friend does not align with the rest of scripture.", my proof that you are wrong is as follows: Rom 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? Rom 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? Rom 9:23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, Rom 9:24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'" Rom 9:26 "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD." Rom 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; Rom 9:28 FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY." God Bless Ed, John |
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8 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | Hank | 87720 | ||
Now really, John Reformed, what's new in your post that you haven't posted umpteen times already? EdB was right after all: "We have both heard it all." (What WOULD you Calvinists have to talk about if it weren't for Romans 9 ?? !! :-) ..... Note to new users: If you really want to read several hundred posts on the Forum's Famous Calvinism Debates, hit Search and type in Calvinism. --Hank | ||||||
9 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 87757 | ||
"What WOULD you Calvinists have to talk about if it weren't for Romans 9 ?? !!" Genesis 1-Romans 8 and Romans 10-Revelation 22. :) --Joe! |
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