Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55632 | ||
1) Colossians 1:15. The NKJV reads in part: "The firstborn over all creation." The KJV reads: "The firstborn of every creature." Notice the expression "the firstborn of." Here we're not concerned with "firstborn" by itself. (Hebrews 12:16) Rather its "the firstborn of." Each time this expression appears in the Bible before here, it refers to part of the group when speaking of living creatures. E.g. "the firstborn of Pharaoh," is one of Pharaoh's family, and "the firstborn of beasts," are themselves animals. (Exodus 11:5) So, everywhere else, "the firstborn of" is part of the group! To translate the Greek as "the firstborn over" changes it to a place of preeminence or authority. So, the question is: Does the Greek say "the firstborn over" or "the firstborn of"? Well, "the firstborn over" contradicts Revelation 3:14, NKJV, where Jesus himself says that he is "the Beginning of the creation of God." Whereas "the firstborn of" agrees with it and the Greek! 2) Notice the context: Verse 3: "We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." No equality there! Verse 16: "In him" (Int.) not "by him." Have you compared the translation of the Greek "panta" in Luke 13:2, NKJV? It translates it as "all [other]." Colossians 2:3 says: "In whom [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." What's the point of saying this? Verses 4 and 8 answer: "Lest anyone should deceive you." "Lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deception . . . not according to Christ." So Jesus possesses superior "wisdom and knowledge" as verse 9 shows: "For in him dwells all the fullness [put there by the Father, Colossians 1:19]." "All the fullness" of what? Verse 3 mentions "wisdom and knowledge." Verse 9, NKJV its "the Godhead." "The divinity." (Int.) "The Deity." (NIV) "The fulness of God's nature." (Weymouth) "The perfection of God."(LB) This word "Godhead" is mentioned three times in the KJV: (a) Acts 17:29; (b) Romans 1:20; (c) Colossians 2:9. Strong's says (a) means: "godlike (neut. as noun, divinity)." This indicates a quality in the neuter tense; (b) means: "divinity (abstract)"; (c) means: "divinity (abstract)." We can see it doesn't mean "God." Rather its abstract; a divine quality; spiritual qualities. This agrees with "all the treasures of [godly] wisdom and knowledge" and is in contrast with 'human philosophy and tradition.' 3) Colossians 3:1 says: "If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God." The "things above" are spiritual. Christ is not God himself, but "sitting at the right hand of God." 4) Philippians 2:6. The NKJV rendering does not harmonize with humility and unselfishness, rather the opposite. (Genesis 3:5) The New Jerusalem Bible says: Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped." What does the Greek word rendered "robbery" mean? Strong's says: "to seize." Lit. "snatching." It would be totally inappropriate for a sinful human to have the "selfish ambition" of being equal to God. Even Jesus, in the position of God's firstborn Son and in God's form, not a slave's form, still didn't have the "selfish ambition" of being equal with God. This would be a greater display of humility because a son is greater than "a slave"! 5) Romans 9:5. The question is, Why do some translations contain a period after "according to the flesh, Christ came" or "from Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race." Is it primarily to show whether Jesus is God or not? Well, consider the context and the Greek? Romans 15:6 records Paul as saying we should "glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." So that would mean Paul was contradicting himself, wouldn't it, if he meant to teach Jesus was God? The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel and Other Critical Essays says "[the (thing) according to flesh] in reading must be followed by a pause,-a pause which is lengthened by the special emphasis given to the [according to flesh] by the [the (thing)]." He says the preceding sentence is complete. Further he says the recounting of all the blessings given to the Israelites-"the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the Law, the service [of God], and the promises . . . the fathers and . . . the Christ"-"naturally suggests an ascription of praise and thanksgiving to God as the Being who rules over all; while a doxology is also suggested by the [Amen]." He says all the oldest manuscripts of this verse contain a period after "flesh." Then verses 6-24 point to God's authority, his being "over all." Stokey. |
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2 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | srbaegon | 55645 | ||
Hello Stokey Just to address a few quick things. I'm too busy for an indepth response. 1) You mix apples with oranges. "Firstborn" in Rev 3:14 is "arche". From Strong's: 1) beginning, origin 2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader 3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause 4) the extremity of a thing 4a) of the corners of a sail 5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy 5a) of angels and demons You can see that it has the idea of preeminence, rather than the first in a sequence. 2) The word "godhead" in Strong's actually means: 1) deity 1a) the state of being God, Godhead 5) "He says all the oldest manuscripts of this verse contain a period after 'flesh.'" The oldest manuscripts don't even have punctuation. Better throw away the book. Steve |
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3 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55696 | ||
1) Yes, "Beginning" in Revelation 3:14 is "arche." Yes, Strong is right! It means "beginning." Your 2nd quote contradicts your statement: 'not the first in a sequence.' 2) "Godhead" in Webster's means "divine nature or essence: DIVINITY." "Godhood" means the same. See Strong's nos. 2304, 2305, 2320. 5) Mss. A, B, C, L. Stokey. |
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4 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | srbaegon | 55727 | ||
Hello Stokey 1) Let me state it better then. You can see that it has the idea of preeminence, so that first in a sequence is because of rightful place and not because one begins to count from there. Look at the whole picture please. And you are still comparing apples to oranges. That's deceptive. 2) You stated the definition came from Strong. Now you say it's from Webster. More deception? 5) The author of that book must have seen a better copy of Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph) than I've seen, so my teacher was wrong. I'll check it for myself later. Steve |
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5 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | stokeyhk | 55877 | ||
Come on, Steve, you know I'm not being deceptive. The definition of the Greek word is from a Greek dictionary-Strong; the meaning of the English word from an English dictionary. Stokey. |
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6 | Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man | John 9:24 | srbaegon | 55879 | ||
Hello Stokey I quote from your posting (ID# 55632): "Strong's says (a) means: 'godlike (neut. as noun, divinity).' This indicates a quality in the neuter tense; (b) means: 'divinity (abstract)'; (c) means: 'divinity (abstract).'" I'm just calling you on your statement. Steve |
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