Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75316 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! There are many assumptions in your post my friend, but nowhere in the verse you quoted does Scripture teach two kinds of death, nor list the difference between the two. You teach that physical death is inherited, but spiritual death only occurs when a person sins. Where does Scripture say that at? p.s. - You never did respond to my post about Psalm 51, which quite clearly shows that David was a sinner from conception. ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | disciplerami | 75371 | ||
QUITE CLEARLY? NOT. Ps 139:13 For You formed my inward parts [but allowed me to inherit Adam's sin]; You wove me in my mother's womb [and without any choice, You made me a sinner]. Ps 139:14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made [except for the part about be depraved and unholy from conception]; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well, Ps 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me [and in the book of deeds you recorded the sins of my parents against me], When as yet there was not one of them Psalm 51 does not quite clearly teach that David was a sinner. If anything, it is talking about his mother or about the world of sin around him. But it does not say he was born with sin. You assume too much. Psalm 58 is often used by your type to prove the same thing, but it is obviously not a literal statement about when the unrighteous became liars. The doctrine you propose, that one man is born in a depraved state is a hideous doctrine that should finally be laid to rest. My God, my Creator, gives everyone an equal chance to salvation. The same nature He gave to Adam, He also gives to every other person. You don't see two kinds of death? Please! They did not physically die did they? No. But they did sin against God and sin brings forth death. The death was spiritual separation from God. And I did support the statement. At the end of Genesis 3, God then removed the first couple from the garden and the tree of life lest they eat of it and live forever. Go ahead and read it. I have given the support. Good day. |
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3 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75402 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! Was David talking about the world around him? Was he talking about his mother? Let's read Psalm 51:5 again and see what it says! "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." What is the subject of the sentence? "I" - i.e. David. What does the verse say about David? It says that he was sinful from the time his mother conceived him. This is a very clear Scripture my friend. No one is reading anything into it. No one is adding words to Scripture. It just so happens that you don't agree with what the verse is saying, so you reject it. :-) By the way, I am Arminian in theology, so I do agree with you that everyone has a chance at salvation. But, the way to support that position is not to deny original sin, which is very clearly taught in Scripture. The answer to original sin is found in the doctrine of unlimited atonement (especially in Rom. 5). No man will be lost because of Adam's sin, because Christ atoned for all sin. Romans 5 is very clear that just as Adam's sin brought condemnation for all men, so also Christ's death brought life for all men. The only requirement is found in Rom. 5:17b, "...how much more will those who receive God?s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." This (I believe) is the answer to the orginal question of this thread. All are born sinners, but Christ atoned for all sin. Therefore, infants, who have not had a chance to reject God's grace are covered by His atonement. We don't, however, have to reject the very clear teaching that man is born with a sin nature. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | disciplerami | 75444 | ||
Tim, This is the NASB web-site. What version are you using because the NASB doesn't say that? The NASB says, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me." and you know it, but you must not like that translation. AGAIN, IT IS NOT 'VERY CLEAR.' So you see Jesus' death as providing two separate atonements: the first is provided to all and the second--the only one that can make them right--is received only when they believe and obey the Gospel? If you believe this, how do you support it. I am STRUCK by the lack of scriptural evidence to support this statement: "All are born sinners, but Christ atoned for all sin. Therefore, infants, who have not had a chance to reject God's grace are covered by His atonement. " Good day. |
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5 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75466 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! I wasn't aware that one could only quote from the NASB! ;-) I normally use the NIV, which is what I was quoting from. The NET Bible footnote for this verse states: "The psalmist?s point is that he has been a sinner from the very moment his personal existence began. By going back beyond the time of birth to the moment of conception, the psalmist makes his point more emphatically in the second line than in the first." If David isn't speaking of himself, then what is he speaking of? The entire Psalm is a confession of HIS SIN. Does David now turn around are start speaking of conception itself as being sinful? My friend, the verse is clear, whether you want to admit it or not. David was a sinner from conception. Concerning the Scriptural support, I did provide it, I just didn't spell it all out. I pointed you to Romans 5. But, if you insist that I spell it out, I will! Let's begin in Rom. 5:12 and go through verse by verse (by the way, I will be quote the NIV)! Rom. 5:12 - sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience. Death is a consequence of sin, because all sinned. The last verb is a past tense. It doesn't say that all die because all will sin or may sin. It says that all die because all sinned. Now, how could we all be said to have sinned, even if we were not alive when Paul penned this verse? This verb points to one act of sin in which all men, no matter when they were born, participated. When could that be? The only answer is Adam's sin. His sin corrupted us all and brought death upon us all. This emphasis upon Adam's sin and it's consequences is repeated throughout the passage. Consider the following: a) v. 15 - "many died by the trespass of the one man" b) v. 16 - "The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation" c) v. 17 - "by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man" d) v. 18 - "just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men" e) v. 19 - "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners" None of these verses say that we die because we sin. None of these verses say that condemnation comes because we sin. They all say that these are a result of Adam's sin. Rom. 5:13 and 14 - Even those who did not disobey a specific command, like Adam did, died. Why? Because, death entered the world because of Adam's sin. Rom. 5:15 - Here Paul begins a series of contrast and comparisions between Adam's sin and Christ's death. Adam's sin brought death for all, but Christ's death brought grace for all. Rom. 5:16 - Adam's sin brought condemnation for all, but Christ's death brought justification for all. But wait, not all are saved! So, what is Paul talking about? See the next verse for the answer. Rom. 5:17 - Death reigns because of Adam's sin, but life will reign in "...those who receive God?s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness" Rom. 5:18 - Adam's sin brought condemnation for all men, but Christ's death brought justification and life for all men. Rom. 5:19 - Adam's disobedience made us all sinners, but Christ's obedience made us righteous. So, in response to your questions about the atonement. I do not believe in two atonements. I believe in one atonement for all sin - past, present, and future. According to Rom. 5:17, everyone who accepts this gift will live. But, the atonement itself was for all men, according to Rom. 5:18-19. These verse say that Christ's death went to the same extent as Adam's sin. This should be enough for now! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | disciplerami | 75475 | ||
I respectfully say that I don't care about the NET Bible's commentary on the subject. That is not what the verse says. And the NIV is inferior, as most people will attest. The NASB is the closest thing we have to a word-for-word translation. The NIV translators put too much of their dogma into the text. |
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7 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75476 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! So, your response to all the points I made is "No comment"! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | disciplerami | 75514 | ||
The response I make is that you start with a good translation. Let's be honest here, an inferior translation the NIV is. Could I teach the Gospel to someone with it, sure. Could I teach the Gospel to someone with the Living Bible, sure. But I don't recommend it. The translation is inferior, that is my point. So why should I try to argue against a translation that we know is inferior to the NASB? The NASB, Psalm 51:5 passage doesn't say David was sinful. To say otherwise is just commentary and speculation. Good day. |
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9 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75542 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! I differ with you on the quality of the NIV. Overall, I think that it is a decent translation. I use it primarily because it is easy for the average reader to understand. However, since I know Greek and a little Hebrew, I usually depend upon my own translation for the heavy details (at least in the New Testament)! :-) But, back to Psalm 51:5. May I ask what you see Psalm 51:5 as saying if not that David was sinful? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | disciplerami | 75602 | ||
Hi Tim, 'brought forth in iniquity' can be referring the sin all about him, his mother, the world. If David is talking about himself, then he has to be exaggerating for emphasis to his sinfulness, as in psalm 58:3 |
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11 | Is sin inherited from father and mother? | Rom 5:12 | Morant61 | 75617 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! So, your answer is that you don't know what it means, but it can't mean that! :-) First of all, why would David talk about sin all around him, or the sin of his mother, when he is confessing his sin? Was he claiming that everyone sins, so it is alright? Secondly, why does he have to be exaggerating? Simply because you don't agree with the possibility, doesn't mean it can't be! :-) The options you mention don't make any sense in a personal confession of sin. The subject of the sentence is David, not his mother or the world around him. He has just said in v. 4 that God is right to judge him. Why? Because, not only did he sin against God, but he has been a sinner from birth. Verse 6 continues the thought by observing that this is not what God desires from David. God wants him to be faithful. So, David asks for this ability. Psalm 51 is a beautiful prayer of repentance. To ignore the meaning of v. 5 robs it of it's beauty. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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