Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134751 | ||
Greetings EdB! There is one other legitimate option. It could be a reference to Ez. 36:23-27: "I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes. 24 ”‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." Notice the mention of sprinkling water. This would have been a very familiar passage to a Pharisee. As for me though, I believe the clearest meaning comes from the context of v. 6. Thus, I would see it as simply a contrast between natural and spiritual birth. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | EdB | 134759 | ||
Tim That is absolutely correct and that plus the practice of ritual bathing became the grounds for baptism of a proselyte going from gentile to Jew. They were said to have been born again. Which to me again is tying this back to Water baptism of John for the repentance of sin. Hence our forefathers who didn’t get all disturbed when ever the boundary of grace and works seemed a little blurred added and baptized for the remission of sin in Nicene creed. As I said I see two distinct meanings here and I think that is exactly as Jesus intended. The first the water of natural child birth and secondly the water for signifying the repentance of sin. The interesting past here is nobody seems to have a problem with the need to repent nor the need to believe but they all seem to stumble on baptize. The first two are as much works as the last, the only difference is the first require a conscious effort the last requires physical. As I said you guys argue it out. I have my answer. EdB |
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3 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134764 | ||
Greetings EdB! Is 'repenting' or 'believing' really a work? A work is something 'done' to earn salvation. Repentence is simply a change of attitude. Faith is also an attitude. They are a recognition that I need God's grace, but they don't 'earn' God's grace. If indeed 'faith' and 'repentance' are works, then how do you explain Eph. 2:8-9? This verse clearly says that we are not saved by works. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | EdB | 134767 | ||
Tim In this context what is work? To most it is anything you have to do. Let us use the addiction to pornography. To repent of it all you have to do is stop looking at it. However to some that is nearly impossible for them. They have to 'work' at it. As to the question about Eph 2:8-9. Here we have a text that says we are saved by grace and not of works that any should boast. Does that mean no effort on our part or does it mean we can't 'earn' our salvation. I think it means the latter not the former. We are entirely too hung up on this tension between grace and works. Absolutely there is no way to 'earn' salvation however to be saved there are things we 'must do'. We must believe, we must repent, we must serve God, we must forgive, we must love our neighbors, we must make disciples, we must obey Jesus' commandments, we must love God we must have faith. All these things are "musts" in the Bible. All of these are work. Now what happens if your truly saved and you died before you made a disciple would you still be saved? Yes but that does not remove the requirement for us that live to make to disciples. If you were truly saved and you didn't have time to forgive your neighbor are you saved? Yes but that does not remove the requirement for us that live to forgive our neighbor. To me scripture is clear you must be baptized for the remission of sin. Does that mean the thief on the cross was not saved because he was never baptized? No! however that does not remove the charge for us to be baptized. The message is getting distorted. We are like a bunch of lawyers hunting through a document, in this case the Bible, for "loop holes". The result. There are far too many in the church today that believe they have to do nothing. All they have to do is confess Jesus as Lord and they are saved. They sit and watch as bemused spectators as God’s servants go about the task of serving the Lord. People are dying and going to hell because no one ever lived Christ before them and they were surrounded by "Christians". Like I said you guys argue your answers I already have mine. EdB |
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5 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134782 | ||
Greetings EdB! I sincerely hope that you don't view a polite discussion as an arguement my friend! Frankly, I don't see a difference between 'earning salvation' and 'things we must do'. :-) Allow me to clarify my position. If salvation is based both upon what God has done and what I do, then I am 'earning' it. God did His part, now if I don't do my part - I'm not saved! But, if I do my part, I am saved. To me, I don't see how that can be anything but a 'work', which Eph. 2:8-9 clearly says doesn't save us. Now, you mentioned the thief on the cross. If baptism is something we 'must do' for the remission of sins, then the thief could not have been saved because he wasn't baptized. To say that he could be saved without baptism is to say that baptism isn't really required. If it isn't required for him, why is it required for anyone else? :-) Trust me my friend, I am not looking for loop holes! I am looking for grace, which is what I think the church today is missing. We no longer trust in God's grace to save us, but we look for all of the things we have to do to save ourselves. I have never met a single person who believed in salvation by grace alone who thought that it was okay to sin. Rom. 3-7 spell out why we can't live in sin. The old man is dead. Gal. 5 and Rom. 8 spell out how someone who is controlled by the Holy Spirit will live. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | EdB | 134828 | ||
Tim You said, "I have never met a single person who believed in salvation by grace alone who thought that it was okay to sin." You may not have but I sure have. But even worst almost to person of the ones I have met that were grace only, is they did absolutely nothing for the kingdom. Is the the old man really dead? Are you never tempted? If so what is being tempted? Your old man is it not? The fact you resist temptation is work is it not? This argument "If baptism is something we 'must do' for the remission of sins, then the thief could not have been saved because he wasn't baptized. To say that he could be saved without baptism is to say that baptism isn't really required. If it isn't required for him, why is it required for anyone else?" That my friend is loophole. The law of the land says every child must attend school. However if a child is physically unable to attend school he is excused. That does not change the fact that every other child must attend school. Ephesians 2:8-9 is clearly stating you can not earn salvation. However it does not say salvation is does not carry requirements. If you can't see the difference then that may explain why you can't see what I'm saying. However I do see a difference a vast difference. Let me ask you a question. In the parable of the son's wedding feast Matt 22:1-14. Do you agree it is an analogy of salvation. First it was offered to the Jews but they refused then it was offered to the Gentile? In verse 12 we see a man that is not properly attired yet he made into the king's presence. What is that all about? To me it is representative of so many today that say all you need is grace and never bother to put on their wedding clothes. EdB |
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