Results 1 - 12 of 12
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134515 | ||
Doc, First of all, water is not "by itself" in John 3:5, it is connected to the Spirit in the Greek syntax as well as in the English by "and". I think Ephesiand 5:26 is the answer to your question, but I will not hold my breath waiting for agreement. John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Eph 5:26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Emmaus |
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2 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | DocTrinsograce | 134526 | ||
The Latin Vulgate actually uses the words "Holy Spirit" instead of "Spirit." However, your conclusion doesn't eliminate other interpretations. Ephesians 5:26 is clearly metaphorical. It speaks of the application of the Word in cleansing, baptism isn't mentioned in the context at all. Titus 3:5 is speaking of regeneration, which is a something that God does on a spiritual level. Again, baptism isn't even mentioned. Is your interpretation of this verse (John 3:5) one that is required of you by Rome? If so, I apologize for provoking you and Dalcent by this question -- that wasn't my intent. I am seeking a more specifically Biblical interpretation rather than a traditional one. As I said to Dalcent, if we can find another passage where the word "water" alone is used in the same way then we can definitively conclude that Christ meant it to be baptism. If not, we will have to seek other ways to handle it. This would just be the easiest and the first step. |
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3 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134536 | ||
Doc, "Is your interpretation of this verse (John 3:5) one that is required of you by Rome? If so, I apologize for provoking you and Dalcent by this question -- that wasn't my intent." Actually that intepretation of John 3:5 is required of Catholics. But I belived it for 45 years before I was ever aware that it was a defined position of the Church. I must say that I agree with Dalcent's position on baptism, but I found that being right is not always enough to convince people in these parts. ;-) I have been through the Baptismal wars a few times and have been an observer in many other skimishes. I have only so much time and energy. You guys can't afford to captitulate on this point without expecting to baptized in the Tiber. It would mean accepting all of Catholic Sacramental theology and swimming the Tiber (God willing and the Holy Spirit moving). And we Catholics, we only go into water far enough to be baptised into Christ. We aren't going to swim Lake Geneva. Emmaus |
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4 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | DocTrinsograce | 134542 | ||
As I said, Emmaus, it was not my intent to provoke you. I understand that you are obligated to embrace this position in order to retain your good standing in the eyes of Rome. Truly, I apologize for trigging your quite natural reaction. Please consider my original question as being addressed to those who embrace sola scriptura. Thank you, however, for taking the time to reply. | ||||||
5 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134547 | ||
Doc, My "obligation" is my pleasure. I embrace it freely and joyfully. It is not anymore a burdensome "obligation" to me than embracing Sola Fidei, Sola Scriptura, is for you to maintain your good standing in the eyes Geneva or all other Protestants. Emmaus |
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6 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 134552 | ||
Emmaus, The debate is less about what Catholics understand baptism to be than about what they understand it to atually do. As far as I know, Protestantism has no theology of "original sin", so the relation of water to washing to being born is not clear. Do you agree? If so, could you explain original sin and its relation to baptism? Colin. |
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7 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134576 | ||
Greetings Colin! All of the protestant groups that I am familiar with certainly do believe in original sin. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 134591 | ||
Tim, Does Protestantism distinguish original sin from those quotidian sins of the flesh -- lust, envy, greed, etc.? Colin |
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9 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134621 | ||
Greetings Colin! Yes! Original sin is the sin of Adam and Eve that results in all men be born depraved. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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10 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 134624 | ||
Tim, so is original sin distinct from "concupiscence"? Colin |
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11 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Morant61 | 134670 | ||
Greetings Colin! That is twice now that I have had to consult a dictionary to answer your question! ;-) I believe that there is certainly an element of desire in original sin, but the main focus is on the headship of Adam. Adam and Eve sinned and as a result, death came upon us all. Thus, David could say in Ps. 51 that he was conceived in sin, and sinful from the time of conception. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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12 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | flinkywood | 134676 | ||
Tim, In Catholic theology original sin is distinct from the sins of the flesh. Catholics view baptism as a sacrament (in that it effects what it symbolizes) that washes us clean of the former; the latter remains for us to struggle against with self-examination and confession. That struggle is integral to our sanctification. Interesting. Colin |
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