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NASB | 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord! [John 14:3; 1 Cor 15:52; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:23; Col 3:4] |
Subject: Searching for the truth |
Bible Note: Hi Roaring Lamb, That is a great way to begin! Let's get a foundation to begin.. You asked, "What I ask is that you show me specifically the words that say Enoch or Elijah did not die and we'll take it from there. Here's my promise: if after several exchanges on this topic, you still think I'm off my rocker and you no longer want to hear from me, I'll honor your request." But first we need to distinguish between physical death and spiritual death, because I have no problem with God translating someone from this life to the next escaping physical death either under the Old or New Covenant. If this is your starting point, you may have to begin with your points. But I do have a question about Enoch and Elijah escaping SPIRITUAL DEATH placed upon all mankind from Adam.. In addressing 'spiritual' death I would begin with Romans 5:14-17 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Now if spiritual death under the Old Covenant was to go to the holding place of the righteous dead as Luke 16 seems to indicate.. Luke 16:22 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. ....then how did Elijah go to 'heaven'. Did Enoch and Elijah not experience the 'spiritual death' pronounced upon all men? Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (should not see death) 2 Kings 2:11 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (taken up to heaven) Let me know if my posts are unclear as communication can be a tricky thing. Secondly, I may not be able to respond in depth on any given day. My time is limited, and I am sure yours is too. God bless |