Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 127313 | ||
Ancient here is the the answers to your questions 1) As God is the same yesterday today and forever, and God's methodology in instituting commandments is always quite detailed, should this not be the case in the New Testament as well? Ans: Let’s look at just a few of the exceptions to your premise. Matthew 28:19-20, John 7:16 Acts 1:7 Act 2:38, 1 Cor 11:27 and 1 Cor 11:29 2) If the Hebrews passage is a commandment, what are the specific parameters of this commandment? How often? Where? How many people should be attending? What day does this passage prescribe? Ans: Where does it say a commandment has to have parameters? If I tell you to pick up a stone is that not a command? Do I have to say pick up every stone, or one stone three times a day before it becomes a commandment? I think not! 3) If Hebrews does not have parameters to follow, then is it really a commandment, according to the examples given in the past of God's lawmaking? How are we supposed to follow when we aren't told how? Or shall we just decide on our own what the parameters should be? Ans: Once again is the absence of parameters proof there is no commandment? What are the parameters on love you neighbor as yourself? Once again you say command must have parameters again I say “Pick up a stone “: is very much a command and it carries not parameters. 4) In what way do you consider love, being all encompassing, to have potential for failure when Corinthians says that love never fails? Ans: Love for God and love for each other prevents us from disobeying his commandments. Love is the motivator, obedience is the result, commandments are direction setters. 5) What thing that I have said has given you the impression that we should love only in word, doing anything else however we please, as opposed to loving in deed and truth, as described in Corinthians? Ans: You have said you do only what you determine is correct irregardless of what anyone else says. You have mocked the church, orthodoxy and said, “…I see something many don't see. Maybe that makes me wrong. Maybe that makes me special. Who knows which.” 6) If all commandments we have are summed up by love, are derived from love, and are fulfilled by love, then what commandments do you suggest do not fall within these parameters without contradicting scripture? Ans: Again love is the motivator not the conclusion. I can love the pieces out of something but still do it harm. How many mercy killings are proof of this. Your taking love an emotion a motivator and trying to make it the end all. It isn’t it is what we do with and how we show that love that matters. 7) If love is once again the fulfillment of the law and from where the law is derived, then in what way does attendance at a church building adhere to this commandment or exhortation in Hebrews that cannot also be adhered to through a Bible study of five or six people? Ans: Love is not the fullfillment but rather a motivator of keeping the law. Jesus said the law hangs on these not that they are fulfilled by love. It takes action and obedience to fulfill the law. 8) Jesus said that where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there in their midst. At what point did two or three gathered become inadequate in favor of a church congregation? Ans: I never argued that point. I just said Hebrews 10:25 clearly tells us to gather together. However even Jesus recognized the fact it took 12 to make a synagogue. 9) With our present availability to as many as twenty bible translations, interlinear bibles, concordances, online websites, history books, a voice of our own to raise in song, radios to sing along to, homes to gather together, and dozens of commentaries and other books on various topics ... what thing can we not accomplish at our home that can only be accomplished at church? Ans: We can not fellowship with others at home, we are called to exhort encourage and edify. We are called to teach preach and baptize, We are call to be witnesses. All of which is impossible locked in our own little homes. 10) What thing makes you believe that going to church is a commandment when loving your neighbor, in truth not word, fulfills the law regardless of going to church? Ans: Again where does it say love fulfills the law? We are not under the law by grace which merely means the law and our keeping of it or not will not effect our salvation. However the law is still in place and still should be our standard for living. In all of this I fail to see you point. Your point is the only law is to love and if we do that everything else is okay. EdB |
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2 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Ancient | 127323 | ||
EdB, (Continued from previous two posts) 10 Statement: Again where does it say love fulfills the law? We are not under the law by grace which merely means the law and our keeping of it or not will not effect our salvation. However the law is still in place and still should be our standard for living. Answer: I already showed the passages pertaining to love fulfilling the law, so we are straight on that issue for this point, yes? Now, I want to say up front that I do not want to start a debate in the middle of this one over a "once saved always saved" doctrine, but I sincerely urge you to read a little more fervently, because you are in for a big shock on Judgment Day if you think you can not keep God's law and get away with it. Not being under the law means that we are not subject to written commandments, but we are still subject to the intent, which is love. And John states quite plainly that a man that does not love abides in death, is a murderer, does not know God, is not born of God, is of the devil, and is in darkness even now. See 1st John. To conclude these posts: You say, "Your point is the only law is to love and if we do that everything else is okay." Yes, that is exactly my point. Love is the only law, and if we do that everything is okay. [1st John 2:10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.] [1st John 3:18-20 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.] [1st John 3:23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.] Ancient |
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3 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 127363 | ||
Ancient The point of this exercise? Was it not just as I said it would be. I answered you on each point. Then you rebutted the ones you could rebut, however I must say that you used convoluted and illogical reasoning. In the statements you couldn't directly rebut you dismissed. Just as I said you would do. A command to do something has a parameter (as you are so hung up on) that parameter is doing what your told to do. In this case we are told to assemble together to exhort, encourage and edify each other. The command is to assemble the parameters are together and to exhort. You then ask how often, I think this is nature of our Lord, He learned long ago if he said once we would do it once, if He said 5 times we would do it five times. He said do it and left the decision of how often to us. Perhaps how often is in direct proportion to our love for Him. The examples I gave are just a few of the many commands Jesus gave. Yet you summarily reject them. Jesus called us to holiness, to righteousness, and to love, He commanded us to go into the world and be his witness, He commanded us to be wise and not to be deceived by those that would come into our midst, Yes He commanded us to love, first God and then our neighbors, but he also commanded us to serve God and worship God. He commanded us to respect the Law and to honor the law and to live by its standards and precepts. Admittedly love is the activator of us doing this since we are no longer under the threat of eternal damnation however love is vehicle, the attitude not the action. If I just loved you and never told you, you were wrong on this subject would that fulfilling what Jesus called us to do? No Jesus said if we see someone in error we should go to him and tell him he is in error and help him find his way. That is love. Ancient the more I learn of your position on this subject, I see your problem is not really with the command to assemble together but rather your problem is with the church itself. You see the church as corrupt, you see the church as the instigator of sin and crime and you see the church filled with hypocrisy. Somewhere you have been hurt by the church or rather by people within the church. It was wrong and I wish I could correct that situation however neither you or I can, however forsaking of the church is not the answer. The church is made of people and people sin, therefore the church on earth is going to sin from time to time. That does not change the fact Jesus started the church and the church is what has carried Christianity through the ages. While churches have done things wrong they have also done many good things most of the colleges were founded by the church. Most hospitals, orphanages, retirement homes are church backed or at the very least started by the church. churches are involved in recovery centers, head-start programs, rehabilitation center, food and can clothing centers. All of these represent ways the church members can get directly involved in ministering to others. Jesus commanded us to go and teach and make disciples He provided no other parameters other than that. I take it to mean that we are to constantly to minister to the needs and cares of others, telling them the wonderful truths of God’s love for us and how His Son came to this earth and died for us. I also take to mean that whenever we see someone that says we don’t have to attend church, the very entity Jesus established here on earth, we are to also tell them they are wrong. I feel you have a very definite problem with authority, you like to be the authority in you home Bible study (which by the way is assembling together) but you don’t want to under the authority of others. God created authority also and put each one of us is under some kind of authority. Jesus then taught that authority was for our good and that we should learn to live under it not chaff under it. Along with authority you reject teaching quoting 1 John 2:27 yet we know God ordained teachers, pastor, evangelist, prophets and apostles to teach his truths. Therefore you interpretation that you have no need of teachers is incorrect. We all must learn and God uses ministry offices especially teachers and pastors to teach us. EdB |
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4 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Ancient | 127381 | ||
Good evening Ed, I have taken the time to go back over your posts and reconsider what you have had to say. I have decided that your comments, however insulting time and again, are done in sincerity, not out of a desire to hurt. It is a common factor of your writing, so it is simply part of who you are, and I will try to temper myself and be understanding. I have considered my "insults" to the church as you like to view them. I have concluded that you are not understanding my comments, so to briefly restate the point: It is not the church (actual, active, truly righteous and believing body of Christ), but the teachings of the times considered "orthodox." They believed they were doing the right thing when they did what they did. My gripe is not against the church, but against false doctrines, recognized by the authority of the established church of the time periods to be "orthodox," that lead people to do such horrible things. I have come to the conclusion that you do not understand what love is. You recognize love as an emotion, and from this perspective, I understand why you cannot wrap your mind around this idea. Love, by the context of the Bible, is a behavior you exhibit, not just the emotion that motivates the behavior. Agape is the emotion. Agapao is the action that causes Agape to be exhibited, and it is recognized as a verb and action, not a feeling. I have concluded that you didn't really read my first long post expounding on love and the law. If you read it, you did not give it reasonable consideration. Since the time I presumed you read it, you have made comments blatantly contrary to scripture. I do not understand why. I honestly believed plain scripture would be enough to bring the conversation back into perspective, but I am at a loss since you choose not to acknowledge plainly written statements by Jesus, James, John, Paul, and Peter. This is not stated in sarcasm or insult. I'm truly at a loss as to what to say, because if I can't argue scripture and see progress, then I'm without debate. You have agreed that Hewbrews is not a command. I took the liberty of copying and pasting what you previously wrote for demonstration: "it was I that conceded the fact that you were right going to church as stated in Hebrews 10:25 was not a commandment as such but rather an admonishment made for our good." Because it is not a commandment, but exhortation, and because no other such commandments exist, I will conclude from our discussions the very same point I made in my first post. Going to church is not a commandment, but a thing we should do. Throughout this series of posts, people have lost sight of what my original statement was. Allow me to paste it here for you: "We are not commanded to go to church. Let every man be fully pursuaded in his own mind. The one that does not esteem one day above another, God will make him stand, and we should not judge another's servant, for no man should be your judge regarding Sabbaths, or other related holy days. Those that choose to go to church, you do a fine thing. Those that choose not to go to church, it would be better if you did, but it is not required. If you are weak, you could use the instruction. If you are strong, you could instruct others. So either way it is a good thing, and we don't want to forsake the assembling of ourselves because it is our opportunity to provoke one another to love." [Romans 14:1-10; Colossians 2:16] Again, having reread all the posts, I conclude that not only has this statement not been refuted, but it has been frequently unheld in anger by those that would criticize me, and this includes you. In the attempts to refute what I wasn't ever trying to say, my original statement has been inadvertently verified and conceded to by virtually everyone involved in this post. They, including you, have all stated plainly that scripture does not directly command it. They also, including you, have all stated plainly that they think it is something we should do. This is the heart of what my post was. It was an exhortation to go to church, and to go for the right reasons. Again, people have lost sight of what my original post was. As for love and its relationship to the law; you are not understanding just how powerful love is, what the ramifications of love are, and just how thoroughly love accomplishes all tasks related to God. All in all, our discussion on going to church has been resolved. Neither you or anyone else has refuted me, and all have conceded to my points, expressing similar ones simultaneously without realizing what my original point was. I will address the love issue in a different post, but I think we have reached our conclusion on the "go to church" conversation, unless you have something else to add that supports or defies the stated, supported, conceded statement from the beginning. Ancient |
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5 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 127410 | ||
Ancient You read only what you want to read and focus only on what you think proves your point. Hebrew 10:25 is as much a command as is Exodus 20:13. It was given for our good, for our wellbeing and for benefit. Will, not going to church send us to hell? Yes if we are not Christian, but no if we are in Christ (and I don’t believe true Christians stay home from church) since Christ paid the price for that sin. By the way that is the same for murder without Christ the murdered is condemned to the Lake of Fire, however if the murdered finds Christ ( and I don’t believe real Christians murder) his name is written in the book of life and he will spend eternity with Christ. What you saying is every man should decide for himself what is right for him. That removes God out of the equation and you just can't do that. That is where I have a problem with what you saying. Man doesn’t always make the right decisions many times he starts out good but ends up all wrong. Look at Jim Jones and David Koresh I don’t know either of their hearts but I imagine both started out with a hunger to serve God. Somewhere that got perverted and they mutated into monsters they became. That is why it is so important to compare our actions, our beliefs, our standards against the rest of orthodoxy. If we come up wanting perhaps we have gotten off track and need to be put back on. Further your saying each man should decide for himself what the Bible says even if it conflicts with orthodoxy because in the past men have convoluted and manufactured falsehoods. I’m saying first the church was not responsible for those sins, secondly it was the individual men involve and it wasn’t universal to the church at the time, thirdly the actual participation by the church is greatly overstated in those deeds in most cases the church fought against the actual event. You also promote a very humanist view of scripture, “all you need is love”, No you need servanthood, obedience, holiness, faith, trust, and love. Love is only one of 9 essentials listed in the fruit of the spirit and for a reason it is not in itself the end. Lastly you speak as if you have authority to tell others what is essential in their walk with God. To me that assumes you know more about it than God. I doubt that very much. You say I’m insulting perhaps I speak in truth and that raises your fur. Lastly I have always been taught if a man knows what he is talking about he can say it clearly and concisely in very few words. Your posts many of which must be cut into 3 parts are filled with little more than strawman arguments and scripture ripped from context. Your right I think we are done discussing this and please spare us your teaching on Love, I think everyone on the forum prefers to get their teaching form the masters mouth called the whole word of God. EdB |
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6 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Stultis the Fool | 127420 | ||
"What you saying is every man should decide for himself what is right for him." No EdB, that is what you are saying. |
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7 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 127439 | ||
Proverbs 18:7,8 | ||||||
8 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Stultis the Fool | 127448 | ||
Matthew 5:22, ID# 127315 | ||||||