Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Ancient | 127278 | ||
Okay Ed, I'm going to be open minded and give you the opportunity to instruct me. This is a genuine offer of meekness. Please answer or expound on the following: 1) As God is the same yesterday today and forever, and God's methodology in instituting commandments is always quite detailed, should this not be the case in the New Testament as well? 2) If the Hebrews passage is a commandment, what are the specific parameters of this commandment? How often? Where? How many people should be attending? What day does this passage prescribe? 3) If Hebrews does not have parameters to follow, then is it really a commandment, according to the examples given in the past of God's lawmaking? How are we supposed to follow when we aren't told how? Or shall we just decide on our own what the parameters should be? 4) In what way do you consider love, being all encompassing, to have potential for failure when Corinthians says that love never fails? 5) What thing that I have said has given you the impression that we should love only in word, doing anything else however we please, as opposed to loving in deed and truth, as described in Corinthians? 6) If all commandments we have are summed up by love, are derived from love, and are fulfilled by love, then what commandments do you suggest do not fall within these parameters without contradicting scripture? 7) If love is once again the fulfillment of the law and from where the law is derived, then in what way does attendance at a church building adhere to this commandment or exhortation in Hebrews that cannot also be adhered to through a Bible study of five or six people? 8) Jesus said that where two or three are gathered in his name, he is there in their midst. At what point did two or three gathered become inadequate in favor of a church congregation? 9) With our present availability to as many as twenty bible translations, interlinear bibles, concordances, online websites, history books, a voice of our own to raise in song, radios to sing along to, homes to gather together, and dozens of commentaries and other books on various topics ... what thing can we not accomplish at our home that can only be accomplished at church? 10) What thing makes you believe that going to church is a commandment when loving your neighbor, in truth not word, fulfills the law regardless of going to church? Let us start here. If you respond with a bit of humility instead of insults, I will continue to discuss this. If you respond with more name calling or "you don't know what you're talking about" comments, then I will put this topic to rest unresolved. Whether or not I receive the instruction you wish to give will be entirely dependent upon your ability to behave like a Christian. Fair enough? Ancient |
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2 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Country Girl | 127306 | ||
If I may interject at this point, I'd like to think there's room for both sides of this argument to see the other and agree on some common ground. Like I've mentioned before, everyone readily agrees there is no specific verse or set of verses, in the NT, that give the impression of "Thou shalt do this" or "Thous shalt not do this." Don't you see the end result or conclusion from my previous post is that God wants us to grow up and get away from a need for this kind of specific commands...that's why there's so few of those kind of imperative statements in the NT. God wants us to figure out that most of His Word is really issued for our good so that we will find peace and salvation in His Family. We need to see ourselves as obedient children and obey ALL of His commands, regardless of their category as I cited previously. The bottom line is: it doesn't really matter what terminology we use or the system we come up with to organize the commands of God. I'm convinced we all know that we must comply with the examples and commands as best we possibly can in order to please Him and find ourselves in a favorable position when it comes to Judgment Day. I do hope this post will motivate both you and EdB to reconcile your differences and go back to being good and faithful servants of God, setting good examples for the rest of us on the Forum. It's sad and depressing to see such good friends bicker over such an elementary subject (imo). I'll be praying for blessings of peace for both of you. Country Girl. |
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3 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | EdB | 127315 | ||
Country Girl You have expressed my point clearly. If you read what I have said in this thread, while God no longer places demands on us He does gives us direction that He expects us to follow. Ancient is saying not so, if we have love we have met all of god's criteria. I'm trying to show him and others how utterly ridiculous that is. If you read his comments and dwell on the points he is making you will see it is not othrodox Christianity but rather humanism. EdB |
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4 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Country Girl | 127332 | ||
Yes, I see your point. IF I was literally forced to choose between the two, yours and Ancient's position, I would have to go with yours, as I think you're slightly closer to the truth as I see it. I'm just hoping both of you can keep this discussion friendly and Christ-like. I've seen all the points of your post and Ancient's counter points. I'm just convinced it all boils down to the fact that God wants very, very much our devoted and regular attendance at our local worship assemblies so that we can share fellowship, our strengths and our weaknesses at that formation. God knows us better than we can ever possibly know ourselves and He knows we need to be there. BUT God's wishes apparently are NOT going to come in any clearer language than that already cited in His Word. He's going to leave it up to us to figure out. But I would also tack on a word of caution. If one actually chooses not to go to these worship assemblies I don't really think he/she will feel comfortable in Heaven so God will oblige that person and keep them out. Again, we do reap what we sow. Blessings to you all. Country Girl |
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5 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Ancient | 127344 | ||
Country Girl, There is no position to choose between. It is either commanded, or it is not commanded. Everyone participating in this post has, at one time or another, stated clearly that the scriptures do not directly command us to go to church. If it is not written, then it is not commanded. It is a doctrine of men. My point from the beginning has never been that we should not go to church. I have advocated several times that I am in favor of it, and I think it is a good thing. My position is: Go to church, but go because you want to go, not because someone has determined it as a command when no such written command exists. EdB's position is: Go to church because it is commanded even though it isn't written, but it doesn't matter if we keep the commandments or not anyway because it won't affect our salvation. Which said doctrine is a license to sin. Further, he slanders the doctrine of love, when the scriptures clearly, openly, and specifically say that love is the point. This thing I have demonstrated, though it was rejected, and can demonstrate time and again. I disagree with your analysis that God will deny people paradise because they didn't attend church. I'm sorry, but if they are keeping the commandments of Christ, which never included "go to church," then that's nonsense. Ancient |
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6 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Country Girl | 127354 | ||
But Ancient, my dear friend, can't you see how dangerous this line of thinking would lead to? Our Lord says we're "either for Him or we're against Him." Most of the guidance from His Word lands on either side of that fence. Either we're going to comply with His Wishes, His Commands, His Examples as delegated to His Representatives, the Apostles OR we choose our own way as you're advocating. I'm just saying it's a dangerous and slippery slope you're playing with and worse of all, there are other people in the world, both on and off the Forum that are going to follow your lead and your example. Do continue to study and pray on this issue. Blessings to you. Country Girl |
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7 | Superior Hope | Heb 11:40 | Ancient | 127358 | ||
Hey Country Girl, Let me demonstrate to you what this line of thinking has led to, and what those off the forum following my example have come to be. There are two young men, late twenties, early thirties. Their names are Darin and Richard. Darin spent his life in the church, and he never got answers to questions he asked. He was constantly challenged and ridiculed because he saw things in the scriptures that contradicted the teachings. He was not going to church anymore because they either couldn't or wouldn't answer, and he had despaired. Richard had converted a year ago, and was on the verge of turning back to Atheism because the people in the church had beat down his self esteem. He, too, got no answers, no real support ... nothing. It was a sham. The people were as fake as puppets. On my route, witnessing to anyone and everyone that will listen to me, as is my habit, I ministered to them "outside of the church walls." Both, after hearing the doctrine of love and seeing the credibility of it in scripture, started coming to my home for a Bible study. Neither of them goes to church still, though they want to if they can find a good church. And without going to church, they both, with the doctrine of love, treat people with respect, humility, kindness, patience, etc. They have both become people of good reputation because of where I led them. They have witnessed to many people, and have been able to answer questions. They have both advanced so far ahead of the average "New" Christian, you would never know that this study had only been going on for three months. There is another Bible study at the Toyota dealership nearby. I attended that one for a while. The people attending there are still sucking the teat while those I've discipled are tearing up steak. Richard, the weaker and least knowledgable of the two in the beginning, actually impressed me not long ago by showing me something I hadn't considered. The student taught the teacher, and that is the first sign of Christian maturity. Darin, about the same time, instead of bringing to me his question about an often difficult passage to interpret for most people, came to me with the answer to it, because of the doctrine of love, and presented to me the answer I would have presented to him. All because the foundational doctrine is solid and correct. At this point, I feel confident that either of them could take on a debate and win, because they are both well versed and trained in humility to accept and acknowledge if they are wrong. They both, without guidance from me except by example, have purchased interlinears, history books, concordances, bibles, software, etc. in order to do deeper studies on their own. I am proud of both of them, and neither of them did any of it inside the walls of a church building. They did it in an assembly of four or five, and are fully equipped and edified unto all good works. This is an actual happening. Church, while a good thing, is not the answer. It is AN answer. Other options work as well, and I have the living proof. What they did NOT get inside the church walls, they instead got from without. Ancient |
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