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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Diff filling vs receiveing the Spirit? | 1 Cor 13:8 | Ray | 140376 | ||
Hi Tim, Perhaps you can add Acts 6:5, "and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit,..." Which of these 10 verses and the 8 of receiving the Holy Spirit can you use to prove that they are talking of a Person of the Godhead? Are there any that you feel are comparable to Acts 5:3 and 4 which connect lying to the Holy Spirit and lying to God? What are the verses that you had in mind in your final answer paragraphs? From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Diff filling vs receiveing the Spirit? | 1 Cor 13:8 | Morant61 | 142668 | ||
Greetings Ray! Proving that the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Godhead only from these verses would be difficult. But, here goes! :-) In a previous post, you mentioned that Bullinger believes that only references to 'pneuma hagios' that include the definite article refer to the Giver and not just the gift. In my previous post, I used 9 verses that speak of being filled with 'pneuma hagios'. One of those nine verses was Acts 4:31, where the definite artice is used with 'pneuma hagios'. So, clearly this is a reference to 'The Holy Spirit'. Yet, there isn't any reason to assume that the others are not as well. :-) There is much evidence that the phrase 'pneuma hagios' with or without the definite article is interchangable. Allow me to quote some examples from a previous post. **************************************** There are other examples as well that the two forms are interchangeable. Luke 1:35 speaks of 'pneuma hagios' coming upon Mary, while Acts 1:8 speaks of 'the' 'pneuam hagios' coming upon us. The same verb is used in both verses. In Acts 2:33, Jesus is said to have received 'the' 'pneuma hagios'. In Acts 1:16, 'the' 'pneuma hagios' speaks through David, while in Acts 4:25, it is 'pneuma hagios' Who speaks through the mouth of David. In Acts 5:32, it is 'the' 'pneuma hagios' Whom God gives to those who obey Him, not 'pneuma hagios'. As you have already noted, it is 'the' 'pneuma hagios' Who comes upon the believers in Acts 10:44. However, in light of Acts 10:44, it is clear to me that the 'gift' of the Holy Spirit in 10:45 is the Holy Spirit Himself. Look also at Acts 10:47, where it is said that they had received 'the' 'pneuma hagios'. Can there be any doubt that the Holy Spirit is meant in all three verses? In Acts 11:15, it is 'the' 'pneuma hagios' Who came upon them at the beginning. Then, in the very next verse, Peter equates 'the' 'pneuma hagios' coming upon them with being baptized in 'pneuma hagios (without the article). In Acts 15:8, God gives 'the' 'pneuma hagios'. In Acts 19:2, Pauls asks John's disciples if they had received 'pneuma hagios', and they had not. But, after praying for them, in verse 6 it is 'the' 'pneuma hagios' Who comes upon them. 1 Cor. 6:19 says that it is 'the' 'pneuma hagios' Who is in us. 1 Thess. 4:8 also says that God gives us 'the' 'pneuma hagios'. ************************************** To me, these verses make it clear that 'pneuma hagios' always (with or without the definite article) always refer to the third Person of the Trinity. As to your last question, I was refering to the verses that mention the disciples being filled more than once. Acts 2:4, 4:8, 4:31, and 13:52 all speak of one or more of the disciples being filled more than once. The context always seems to be at a moment when they need empowerment for service. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Diff filling vs receiveing the Spirit? | 1 Cor 13:8 | Ray | 142721 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for the time spent on these posts. I believe that the subject is worth spending the time on. I want to make clear again that I believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Godhead. So I am not looking for further proof of that fact by using these verses. What I am looking for from you is proof that there is no "holy spirit". Are there any verses here that are comparable to Acts 5:3,4? I believe that that is still a good question. I see no reason to believe that a lower case holy spirit, power from above, could not be a viable choice for these verses. A "holy spirit" fits well. 1) E.W. Bullinger in his book "Word Studies on the Holy Spirit" differentiates between the Giver and the gift. I am in agreement with him on that point. He says that the definite article is pivotal in differentiating between the Holy Spirit and the holy spirit. In that regard, I do not agree with him. I have agreed with you, Tim in the past when you said that it was more a matter of personal choice and literary style; that translators chose to include the article "the", or add the article depending on their own whims. Personally, I do not think that it is important whether there is an article or not. My concern is that there is consistency. I believe that the holy spirit can be consistently used in the lower case for these verses of "being filled with the holy spirit" and "receiving the holy spirit". 2) There are no verses here that are comparable to Acts 5:3 and 4 where the Holy Spirit is called God. However, there are verses that are similar in talking in context of the word of God, the gospel, preaching Jesus, hearing the word, power in preaching, speaking in tongues, speaking of the mighty deeds of God. That is what receiving the word of God and being filled with holy spirit is all about. Hebrews 6:4 talks about having tasted the heavenly gift, being partakers of the holy spirit, and of having tasted of the good word of God. 2 Peter 1:3-10 talks of His divine power, and how we have a full knowledge of Him and how He called us. We can be more certain of His calling and choosing us as we become partakers of the divine nature (partakers of the holy spirit and the good word of God) and more aware of His promises and gifts. From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Diff filling vs receiveing the Spirit? | 1 Cor 13:8 | Morant61 | 142835 | ||
Greetings Ray! May I be mean my friend? Can you provide proof that there is a 'holy spirit' as opposed to a 'Holy Spirit'? ;-) I can understand, and agree with you, that sometimes 'pneuma' can be either 'spirit' or 'Spirit', but I don't agree that there is a 'holy spirit'. I simply don't see any evidence for this in Scripture. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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