Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Morant61 | 209923 | ||
Greetings Doc! By 'nature', I mean the sum total of who we are spiritually and physically. My understanding is the 'old man' is our depraved and fallen nature prior to Christ, while the 'new man' is our new nature after regeneration. As I posted, Scripture does not support that we are both old and new at the same time, since the old man has been both 'put off' and 'crucified'. As to your numbered points my friend, what I posted was a study, not a question. So, 1) If someone is not interested, please skip the post. 2) The views I posted on both sides are established with legit quotes. No straw here. :-) 3) When Scripture says the 'old man' is crucified, it is pretty clear that it means the 'old man' is crucified. :-) When it says, we are no longer slaves to sin, I take it to mean that we are no longer slaves to sin. So, I am fairly certain I am sticking with the actual sense of Scripture, unless someone can show me how 'no longer' really means 'presently'. 4) See 3. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | DocTrinsograce | 209927 | ||
Hi, Tim... Thank you for your working definition. That allows us a hope of deriving some degree of benefit, whether we participate actively or passively. The points I gave were some of the problems we have when we fail to define our terms. Nonetheless, thanks for taking the time to evaluate them in whatever way that was you were thinking of them. My fault, really, for not being sufficiently clear. So, let us shift back to the original question. Since, you have excluded broad categories of evaluation in favor of a purely ontological one, we will need to decide if Hoekema, Murray, Bavanick, and -- not least of all -- Paul, were all sharing your definition of human nature. You said that this nature included human spirituality plus physicality, en toto. So, just to deal with the easiest question from the beginning: In what way do humans change physically as a consequence of regeneration? In other words, are these four men talking about human physicality in any way? In Him, Doc PS We may need to refine more of our definitions as we go. |
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3 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Morant61 | 209978 | ||
Greetings Doc! Sorry for the delay my friend! The weekends are very busy for me. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that I have excluded broad categories of evaluation in favor of a purely ontological one. Could you clarify? How do the various authors define 'nature'? None of them actually give a definitive definition. However, consider the following. In Hoekema's response to Walvoord's article, he writes: "Walvoord interprets the 'old man,' or 'old self,' as meaning 'the former life' of the believer, and the 'new self' as meaning 'the new manner of life stemming from the new nature' (p. 208). I do not believe this view does justice to Paul's teaching. 'Old self' I understand to mean the total person enslaved by sin - this total person we Christian no longer are (Rom. 6:6; Col. 3:9). 'New self' means the total person ruled by the Holy Spirit." (p. 231) I understand 'total person' to mean everything that makes us 'us'. Hoekema also quotes Murray, "The old man is the unregenerate man; the new man is the regenerate man created in Christ Jesus unto good works. It is no more feasible to call the believer a new man and an old man, than it is is to call him a regenerate man and an unregenerate. And neither is it warranted to speak of the believer as having in him the old man and the new man. This kind of terminology is without warrant and it is but another method of doing prejudice to the doctrine which Paul was so jealous to establish when he said, 'Old old man has been crucified.'" (p. 81). As to physical changes, I know of no Scripture which details physical changes as a result of regeneration. However, that does not change the fact that these authors are speaking of our nature as being the 'total' of who we are before and after Christ. None of them, that I am aware of, have made the claim that every single aspect of our nature has changed - just that we no longer are the 'person' we once were. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Val | 209986 | ||
Dear Tim, I would like to read Dr. Walvoord's article and Hoekema's response. Where might I find it? Do you have the website? I have heard of Dr. Walvoord and respect him and his studies. I have not heard of Hoekema. Is he of the Nazarene denomination? Thanking you in advance. - Val | ||||||
5 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Morant61 | 209999 | ||
Greetings Val! The articles are part of a book entitled, "Five Views of Sanctification". It is published by Zondervan. Hoekema was professor of systematic theology at Calvin Theological Seminary. It is worth reading. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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