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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20563 | ||
Thanks for your perspective on Geisler's book. I, too, felt that Geisler was trying to shape reforemed theology in the image of armenian. Why? I think we might disagree on this, I think Geisler (who is an intellectual) like myself (up for extreme debate on weather I am one) have seen the lack of evidence and the proof text offered by Calvanist to justify their belief in sovereignty and free will debate. I don't pretend to have all the answers on this subject in my back pocket, but was pleased to see Geisler was admitting that he too felt the same way! He pointed out and made an attempt to reconcile some major contradictions in reformed thought. (which I feel was heavily influenced by platonic philosophy not the scriptures.) I will def. check out the book you have recommended after I finally read a book published by an Armenianist author on this issue. I feel 5-0 is pretty lopsided affair and if I am not convinced yet I am not sure I will ever swing over to a reformed approach on this issue. Second comment about scholarship: When you have authors writing about the "lack of scholarship" in the Christian community I have to wonder what their motives are. Are they considering someone to not be a scholar because they don't agree with them on certain issues? Another words the , "If you were a real scholar, you would naturally come to the same conclusions I have concerning God" type books. If so they are just arrogant and not scholars. If not, I might be interested in looking at their books. I too see a lot of nonsense preached from the T.V and pulpits, but don't even attempt to lump them in as people who are even trying to be "scholars" of the Christian faith. In fact they would probably be the first to admit that they are not scholars. In some sense I think the church has too many "scholars" and not enough people actually "doing" the work of the ministry. It seems like all people want to do is debate about what Christianiy is and never practice it ( I don't mind the debate part as long as the other half is equally in place). I asked my pastor recently why he spent 8 years in college to study the scriptures and how to effectively do ministry and he hides in the church 7 days a week and never does what Paul and the other apostles did--witness in the public arenas...interact and challenge the presuppositions of the world today? What are they teaching in those seminaries about ministry? I just don't see the bang for the buck from people I know who have attended. Enough ranting. If you have been to seminary, I would love to know why people that leave are so ineffective in ministry (That might be too general of a statment). They wax eloqount in philosophy and Theology but never seem to get out in the public arena and challenge others. Most of them hide in the churches and preach where it is safe--another words they "Preach to the choir". Why are our best trained servants in the church never put into action? Why do I, someone who has no seminary training, placed on the front lines of evangelism when there is someone in the church that is much better able to answer the criticism that people have to Christianity--the seminary trained pastor? |
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2 | response | Rom 1:18 | EdB | 20667 | ||
Schwartzkm Let me jump in here. Your last paragraph says a lot. It shows you misunderstand the purpose of the pastor. In Ephes. 4:11-12 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. It is to equip people just like you to go out and do what you feel God has lead to do. I agree that too many sit around and talk about God while very few get out and do anything, however I think that pertains to the body rather than the pastor. Without scholarship we see a increased rise in junk being taught and believed. I think 90 percent of the junk in the church today came about by a lack of scholarship rather than by too much. Just my thoughts EdB |
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3 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20731 | ||
Ehpesians 5 does not releive the pastor of His responsibility to reach out to the lost. The apostles did not use Ephesians 5 as an excuse not to go out into the market place and share their faith with those that are lost and they are also included in the list in Ehpesians (read the Acts of the Apostles). I have been in education for 6 years now and realize the best way to teach people to act a certain way is to "act that certain way." I can't tell people to evangelize and bring the lost into the church when I don't want to place my faith on the line, risk embarassment and share the gospel with people other than the choir. I am not against scholarship; I am against Christianity becoming more of philosophy than a way of life. If you were to suscribe to CBD you would realize that the church does have enough scholars its just people are not reading or listening to them. |
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4 | response | Rom 1:18 | EdB | 20787 | ||
Schwartzkm Have you ever spent a day with your Pastor? Before you judge what he does or does not do I suggest you spend a day with him. Your right Eph 5 does not relieve a Pastor from doing evangelism. I think again the problem stems from perception rather than understanding. Body evangelism is to be done by people in relationship. In other words sharing your faith with people you know, work with, have for neighbors, friends, relatives, and such. The most effective evangelistic tool we have is living a Christ like life before the world. Pastors are people called to instruct and raise up men and women called to ministry, they are to instruct in Godly living, they are to exhort and encourage, they are to shepherd the flock. Most Pastors evangelize people normal church people would never have a chance to meet. However it is done under circumstances very different than Body evangelism. Body evangelism is usually initiated by a question or curiosity from a friend your in relationship with. Pastoral evangelism is usually initiated by strangers out of circumstance, crisis or tragedy. Evangelist are those that are called to share the word with the world in the market place. If you have an argument it is probably with men and women that call themselves evangelist but never preach a word outside the four walls of the church. As for scholarship, your right there are many opportunities for learning and again your right many fail to take advantage of those opportunities. However the church stands in crisis. Many of the seminaries are becoming so liberal, so intellectual that Christ is lost in the process. While many of the conservatives instead of seeking to correct the situation just avoid it. How many have heard the witty pastor “mistakenly” use the word cemetery instead of seminary and then with a sly smile correct himself much to the glee of the listeners? Without sound scholarship the church opens itself to every wind of doctrine that flies by. How do you think this whole mess with evangelism your talking about got started? Many Pastors instead of preaching the word decided to build churches, to build churches you have to have income to have income you have to have people, so they began to preach come and sit, pay your tithe, and we will all go to heaven. The church is to be a training center for people to go out of into the world. Starting other churches, touching other people, raising up others that will go out and do the same thing. EdB |
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5 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20828 | ||
Not only have I spent a day with him, I have spent weeks with him. He is not only my Pastor, he is one of my best friends. Our families spend weekends together, go to the Dallas zoo, go on vacations together in colorodo, etc,. Our relationship is so close that I can make personal statments to him without him taking offense. Why? He knows my heart and I know his and he knows that I will do whatever it takes to not just mount a critique but help find and implement the solution. If the pastor's are performing "crisis evangelism" that would be "getting out into the world" in my book. If the pastor is doing "prison ministry" that would be "getting out into the world" in my book. Whenever a pastor interacts with people other than those from his church and takes that opportunity to open a door for future conversations about Christ--He is doing exactly what I am talking about. That would also include "body evangelism". The problem is so many pastors do none of the above and beat their sheep because they are not doing it! I don't know how many sermons I have heard on the great commission and the railing rebuke that follows because the church (their assembly)is not going out to the highways and by-ways compelling the masses to come in. My simple question is, "Why aren't you doing it, Pastor?" I don't think that is too much to ask for. I agree with you on the need for good christian scholarship and the probable cause of the lack of scholarship in the church. the church has plenty of good scholars but, most people choose not to read the great works that are out there and pastors--thanks to Willow Creek community church and other church growth seminars--are reluctant to preach deep theological messages. I have all the willow creek stuff and have been to the seminar. Just thought I would cut that response off before it is made. :-) Of course I can never respond to the "you just don't understand what was being said at the conference" response that is bound to come up. When pastors are strong-armed and their whole worth centers around how many people are sitting in the pew, the pressure forces them to shift into a "what works" mentality. I emphatize greatly with the stress that pastors face every day. Why? I was one. We def. need to pray for our pastors. They are under a huge amount of stress and pressure to increase their churches numerically in a society that seems to want nothing to do with the Christian message. I could go on and on about my expereinces in this area, but will choose not to bore those in the forum. I will close with this. I would never aske anyone in my congregation to go out and share their faith with others if I was not willing to and currently doing so myself. |
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6 | response | Rom 1:18 | EdB | 20837 | ||
I think we agree on this subject. I see now I wrongly took what you said to be an indictment of scholarship and pastoral ministry. EdB |
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7 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20855 | ||
When I read your last write-up i came to the same conclusion. | ||||||