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NASB | Romans 1:18 ¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 1:18 ¶ For [God does not overlook sin and] the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth, |
Subject: response |
Bible Note: Rom 8: NO. God uses sinful acts for good but does not cause them. To derive that from the passage is completly going beyond what Paul was saying. You miss the whole point of Romans 8. The word predestination is not being used by Paul how you understand it. I could place predestination, in this verse, before foreknowledge and it would not effect my belief at all. All this verse is saying, is that God predestined us to be conformed to the image of Christ--Try a life of holiness to make things simpilar. Let me reword it for you so maybe you can get my point. "Those that God knew would accept Christ he has pre-determined would walk in the likeness of Christ." You, and other people I know, just jump on that word, Predestination, and run wild with it ignorign the broader context. All Paul is saying in this whole passage is that God will use the evil that man causes (Not God) to shape us into the image of his son. It does not refer to a cosmic script people are acting out. It does not refer to a list of who is saved and who is not. The word predestination is the path that each believer will take when they embrace Christ: A path to be confromed to be in His image. Mis-understanding of Calvanism results from the books and college classes I have sat under that were written or lectured to by Calvanist. So maybe your understanding of Calvanist differs from the Calvanist I have interacted with but don't tell me I have mis-understood calvanism. Let me illustrate with one doctrine: perseverance of the siants. If a person cannot walk away from his salvation is he/she really free? No. If God has determined who will be saved before eternity and who will not be saved are people really free to determine to accept Christ are not? No. That Goes for the saved and the un-saved. At best, man has apparant freedom not true freedom which is no freedom at all. You wrote: "I believe he moved on pharohs heart enough to fulfill his purposes and that is all." Two questions: 1. What is the Biblical basis for your belief here? 2. If he moves just enough to fulfill His purposes, what ISN'T part of His purposes? My question is likewise. What is the Biblical ref. you have to prove your view. You will find that you do not have one. You have none. Just the westminister confession--a creed created by man. Last but not least. The terrorist comment. I believe God will use the crash to fulfill his will, but that does not mean he orchestrated the crash. That crash was designed and carried out under the free will of man not God. God is sovereign Joe. If God is all powerful, can't he create a world in which his creation is really free to make choices? Yes. And he did. That world is the one in which we live in. The reaon I did not comment on Prv/eph is because I am limited by time. You jotted down a number of verses with a little one sentence summary. I took the time to thoroughly answer two of your passages and did not have enough time to respond to the other ones. Work calls...I must depart. |