Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20890 | ||
Johnny: You wrote: "What I mean Joe, is If I am going to eat steak in my breakfast and not beacon, because I want beacon and not because God who plan that I am going to eat steak and not beacon. This is my stand." Have your steak...your decision, and God's decree to let you have your steak. You wrote: "If I am not mistaken (correct me if I am wrong) Your believed is from the beginning everything that will happened to anyone because it was God's plan. Meaning if in this year 2001 when someone become a prostitute becuase it the plan of God to them. And there is no single happened to anyone outside God's plan." You are mixing up what happens to us (like getting hit by a stray baseball) with decisions we make (e.g. whether or not we become prostitutes). What happens to us beyond our control is God's sovereign plan. What we do that opposes God's moral will (that is, sinning) is not something that God WANTS us to do, but in his sovereignty He allows us to do it, and has already factored in our sinning into His sovereign plan. He doesn't morally desire for someone to become a prostitute, but He knows that such a decision will be made before the prostitute does and has decreed that it will happen. God's decree is not merely what He morally wishes for us to do, but also what he allows us to do. If we purpose in our hearts that we will sin, God in his sovereignty will control how and when that sin is expressed and will limit the effects of that sin according to His decree. In the case of Noah, we see from a human perspective that God was grieved at what he saw. Are we then to conclude that he didn't know that the world was going to get that bad? There is a whole branch of really bad theology out there called open theism, which basically says that God doesn't know the future. Assuming that you believe God knew the world would get that bad, when did he know that? From eternity past. Could God have prevented the world from getting that bad? Absolutely. Why didn't He? That's a good question, but the fact remains that He always knew the world would become extremely wicked and that He would take the action that He did. Johnny, if we have a God who is really changing His mind based on what people do, then He either doesn't know the future actions of men or He isn't a very decisive and all-wise God. The nature of human beings when they are born is to rebel against God in everything that they do. God changes the hearts of some and lets others suffer their just condemnation. Left to our own natural selves, sinners will do things that displease God, but He allows them to do so within certain boundaries and uses their sinful intent for His glory. And that is God's decree. --Joe! |
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2 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Morant61 | 20891 | ||
Response........................................ Greetings Joe! This is a very tricky topic! :-) Allow me to make a quick comment and ask a quick question! 1) Comment: What do you think is the best way to combine the Scriptures that talk about God's changing His response to nations or individuals and God's omniscience? Personally, I think the answer is that the passages that speak of God's changing are anthropomorphic. Obviously, God knows the future. This is clear from Scripture. However, it is also clear (in my opinion) that God has responded conditionally to people or nations. For me, the answer seems to be that God never really changed because He knew (take Ninevah for instance) what was ultimately going to happen. But, from Ninevah's perspective, they didn't know what was going to happen. They had a real choice to make. Thus, logically or temporally, God fully intended to destroy Ninevah depending upon their response. But, timelessly, God knew what would happen. 2) Question: I did have a quick question about one of your statements. You said: "He doesn't morally desire for someone to become a prostitute, but He knows that such a decision will be made before the prostitute does and has decreed that it will happen." I'm not trying to be a smart alex, but this seemed like a contradictory statement. Aren't decrees things that ultimately spring from God's sovereign will? Thus, how could God decree something that He knew would happen? I'm not trying to be nitpicky! This is just a very difficult topic to grasp or explain. Like you, I am very concerned that Christians don't fall into "Open Theism." The best explanation to me seems to be that God' interactions with man, because of our limitations, have a logical or temporal nature to them. Even though, God Himself doesn't have a temporal nature. Let me know what you think! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21048 | ||
Tim: You wrote: "Let me know what you think!" Haven't you learned by now what can of worms that opens? You also wrote: "I'm not trying to be a smart alex, but this seemed like a contradictory statement. Aren't decrees things that ultimately spring from God's sovereign will? Thus, how could God decree something that He knew would happen?" Not very precise, was it? That's what sleep deprivation does to Joe... God's sovereign will includes what He does Himself, what He orchestrates to occur, and what He permits from His sentient creation. This is indeed a tricky subject, because we have to take into account a lot of things: 1. God's omnipotence and omniscience 2. The responsibility of human beings for their own sin. 3. The fact that God in many places in Scripture declares that He is bringing about judgment upon this individual or that nation, and His decree that judgment will come by means of the sinful activities of another individual or nation (e.g. Absolom sleeping with David's harem as a direct result of his sin with Bathsheba; the conquest of Israel and Judah by Assyria and Babylon, respectively). 4. Our God is a God of purpose. Absolutely nothing that occurs in life is coincidence from God's perspective; and every action in creation, whether committed or permitted by God, has a direct connection to the entire plan of God. That is a lot of Scriptural truth to work into a coherent theology! Let's apply this to a woman who becomes a prostitute. 1. God has always known that it would happen, and God was able to stop it from happening. 2. The woman is responsible for each individual act of sin. 3. God has sovereignly placed the woman in the life situation that she is in, giving her an opportunity and perhaps even a life situation more conducive to a person becoming a prostitute. This is not to say that God TEMPTS the woman to become a prostitute, but one's upbringing makes certain sins more available and socially acceptable (or at least less socially unacceptable). Another example that demonstrates this is the fact that unsaved teenage boys in upper-class, gated communites and who attend private preparatory schools are much less likely to express their inherent sinfulness by joining a street gang than a teenage boy in the inner city. Both are sinful in the eyes of a holy God, and are incapable of pleasing him in anything they do. However, their life situations, ordained by God, give each of them different likely outlets for that sinfulness to manifest itself. In other words, God, though external means, directs our innate sinfulness in directions in which His purposes will be accomplished. 4. The prostitute's sinful decision in her God-decreed environment is decreed to occur (i.e. her sinful wish is permitted to be carried out), with effects reaching as far as God allows and no farther. All of this was included beforehand, in eternity past, as an included event in God's overall plan, along with its consequential effects on other things that He decrees. I agree that God exists beyond time, but he does "reach in" and interacts in a chronological, linear fashion with his temporally-bound creation. --Joe! |
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4 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Morant61 | 21054 | ||
Greetings Joe! Thanks for the clarification! I understand very well the effects of lack of sleep! :-) In fact, I am getting ready to go to bed now so that I can get up for work later tonight! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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