Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | stjones | 20662 | ||
Hi, Joe; I think there's a difference between what God allows and what he decrees. God didn't decree Satan's assaults on Job, though he did allow them. He didn't order Satan to destroy Job's family and wealth, in fact, he twice placed limits on what Satan could do to Job. It's true that God dangled Job in front of Satan like a fat worm in front of a largemouth bass, but it was still Satan's choice to strike. God knew Job's heart (and Satan's) and knew what the outcome would be - a public defeat for Satan, a restoration for Job, and some valuable lessons for us. Likewise, I don't think God decreed that Joseph's brothers would toss him into a well and sell him into slavery. He knew what was in their hearts and allowed it to happen. Again, he knew the outcome - the preservation of his chosen people, the advance of his plan for redemption, and more valuable lessons for us. I think the same can be said for 9/11. Already we have seen some blessings arise out of that crime: renewed respect and love for those who protect and serve us, the return (at least for a while) of God to public life, even the singing of "God Bless America" instead of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game". Admittedly, these things may not seem to be worth 6,000 lives, but God is still at work and we don't know what may yet grow out of it. But God surely decreed the death of his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. I don't think he caused Judas or Pilate to act as they did. He knew their hearts and allowed them to act from their own evil natures, unwittingly advancing God's plan. I don't claim to have God all figured out - although it may sometimes seem like I think have. ;-) But I think the difference is that in all these cases, other people or other circumstances could have brought about God's ends. But only Jesus could die on a cross to save us. Peace and grace, Steve |
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2 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20676 | ||
Looking at your first paragraph, I don't see how you could consider that not a decree. God's decree in the Bible isn't "I will personally do everything," but rather, "I declare from the beginning everything that is going to happen." That is how we see all of God's purposes coming to pass as well as the free agency of beings within his creation. We will act freely in accordance with our own nature and our external freedom and ability to act and largely in accordance with the life situation in which we were raised. I would recommend that you go back and re-read the story of Joseph being sold into slavery. At first they had purposed to kill him. I wonder who put the idea into Reuben's head just to throw him into the well? The sinfulness is ours, but God directs in in the way He wants it to go to glorify himself. Again, in Genesis, we see Joseph specifically declaring that God had purpose in Joseph's life going the way it did. Go back and re-read the story of Joseph's life. See how many times he is placed in misfortune against his will, and see how blessed a story it is because God strategically placed every trial in his life to get the outcome that he wanted. There are few places in the Bible where God's sovereignty in one man's life is so clearly displayed. As far as 9/11, I pose the same question to you that I did to Johnny: if God knew about it from eternity past, and was omnipresent and omniscient at all of the planning meetings to know the minds and hearts of the terrorists and their plans, and had the power at any point to foil the plans of the hijackers, how can you say that God did not intend for it to happen? Yes, the sin was the terrorists', but God knew about it all along, knew what the results would be, had the power to stop it, and didn't (in the case of the two that hit their targets). You wrote: "He knew their hearts and allowed them to act from their own evil natures, unwittingly advancing God's plan." Of course. That is what I have been saying all along. God's decree doesn't mean God does it. However, in God's sovereignty, nothing escapes Him. Part of the crucifixion scenario was that God fully intended that Judas betray Jesus. He directed Judas' innate sinfulness in such a way that His purposes were accomplished. --Joe! |
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3 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | stjones | 20679 | ||
Hi, Joe; Well, once again, God has decreed that we disagree. ;-) Peace and grace, Steve |
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