Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Tim Sheasby | 34629 | ||
Thanks for the quotes but . . . 1. Prov 23:29-33. This verse is talking about someone who drinks too much, not someone drinking in moderation. The Bible roundly condemns drunkenness but also speaks of the blessing of wine. Historic fact: Grape juice, in Jesus time, was only available for a day or two after harvest as in that warm climate fermentation began almost immediately. Grape juice as we have it today is the result of Thomas Welch developing the technique of pasteurising grape juice in 1869 (This can be verified by a quick visit to Welch's website). By Jewish tradition at the time of Christ pasteurised grape juice would have been unacceptable for passover because it had been boiled. Moreover the blessing on "the fruit of the vine" could only be prayed over wine. If they had had grape juice available at the time the blessing for that would have been "the fruit of the tree" (Mishna Berakoth 6.5). 2. Luke 1. This is talking about John the Baptist and has reference to the Nazarite vow. This vow actually forbade any consumption of anything that came from the vine including: pips, juice, grapes, wine and vinegar. However, Nazarites were not exempt from drinking the required cups at passover -- even though these cups contained wine. Another point of interest: grapes have yeast on their skins naturally. It is virtually impossible to wash off. Since this is the case, when grapes are crushed the resulting juice has yeast or leaven in it. If this juice is pasteurised (to kill any bacteria or yeast) the yeast remains in the resulting liquid. However, in the wine making process the yeast grows and multiplies while converting the sugar to carbon dioxide and alcohol. When the alcohol reaches about 18 percent the alcohol kills the yeast and the yeast begins to settle to the botom of the vat. Through a process of "racking" wine makers clarify the wine by pouring off the clear liquid from the sludge (leys) in the vat. In addition, ancient wine makers put clay into this wine to help the sedimentation that results in a clear wine. At the end of this process, wine is unleavened and grape juice is not. God provided a mechanism for the wine used at Passover to conform to the law that they have no leaven in their homes. Although the ancients did not even realise this I Believe this is another evidence of God's wonderful providence. I see a symbolism in this. There is an equation of sin with leaven. For the Lord's Supper, Jesus used unleavened bread. It was the job of the people to ensure that their bread was unleavened. So too with the church that the bread represents -- It is our job to keep the church as pure as we can. The wine that represents Jesus blood, however, is also pure of the yeast (sin) and that was God's job to take care of. God has always been responsible for the sinlessness of the blood. This is just my personal opinion but may be of interest to you and others. Jesus DID drink wine. When accused of being a drunkard or winebibber if he was a tee totaler he would have said so but instead he said "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon!' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." Matt 11:1. Please note that Jesus did not deny drinking alcohol. There is a difference between drinking and drunkenness. |
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2 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | RAVEN | 34653 | ||
Romans 14 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. The scripture Matt 11:1 that you use in defense proves only what others said about Jesus not what Jesus said about Himself. There were many other accusations made also that were untrue. Read again, it says "and they say". A line has been drawn in the sand and we as Christians should stay away from it and not even get close to it. When you say drink in moderation, how does this look to your other christian or non-christian friends. Suppose they see you do it and then they do it and have a problem with controling it. Then because of your actions you have caused someone to fall (sin). Matthew 18 Jesus Warns of Offenses * "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! The above scripture that says "little ones" is not refering to a child as we think of a child but it means children of God, for it says they believe. Its used the same way in 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Now back to the subject.... You have to accept that Jesus was pure and did nothing wrong and would never have contributed to the wrong doing of one of His followers. 1 Peter 2 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth"; If you belive as you have stated that Jesus drank wine in its alcholic form then you have just blown the whole plan of salvation. Habakkuk 2 "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness! As I stated the last time the bible does not contradict itself. So therefore we cannot take the scriptures and twist them to fit the lifestyle we want. We must conform to it, not the other way around. 2 Timothy 3 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work |
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3 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Hank | 34659 | ||
Good post, Raven! No one yet has even been able to define what they really mean by the word "moderation" when they apply it to the volume of alcohol that is "safe" to consume. I have known many people who said they were moderate drinkers, and I have seen many of these same people get as drunk as fiddlers on a regular basis. There is a wide amount of pretense, denial, and refusal to look squarely at the facts to be found among drinkers and proponents of drinking. They are either ignorant of or simply choose to ignore the darker sides of alcohol consumption: the carnage on our highways, the broken homes and orphaned children, the serious health damage, the economic losses, the pain and misery inflicted upon both the user of alcohol and his friends and family. The pat answer always is, "Oh, but you are talking about the abuse of alcohol, not the use of it." But those who take this position are at a loss to define the line at which use becomes abuse. And perhaps the crucial question we should ask (and especially Christians) is not, "How much alcohol consumption is moderate and "safe"? but "Why do I feel I want to drink, or indeed need to drink, in the first place? For Christians in particular, is there truly a void in our lives that we need to fill with alcohol? If there is, that Christian had better get alone with God and do serious business with Him! --Hank | ||||||
4 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | EdB | 34662 | ||
Hank GOOD Word!!!!!! EdB |
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