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NASB | Matthew 26:29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Matthew 26:29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." |
Subject: What is 'the fruit of the vine'? |
Bible Note: Ed: I did not intend to raise a rallying cry for wine use, since I think that there are much more serious issues than this that the church is dealing with these days. Just to comment briefly on a few items... "That because we don't use alcoholic wine God receives no glory in communion? And that communion without alcohol is not administer rightly?" My church uses grape juice, and God is glorified. However, I do hold a stricter view than some that the Son of God consecrated bread and wine for the Lord's Supper, so that is really the right way to do it. After all, if we can use ANYTHING, why not pass out little peanut butter sandwiches and shots of Pepsi? I don't think that whether we use wine or grape juice is something to wage theological war over, but I do hold that wine is best. You wrote: "Yet science has proven even a small amounts of alcohol has negative effects on our body. While food can cause us problems, food has not been proven to alter our body chemistry to make itself addictive." Actually, science has shown just the opposite regarding alcohol in moderation (aids in breaking down LDL cholesterol, for example). As for food, the people who live the longest are most often vegetarians, because eating meat actually contributes to shortening the life span of human beings as well. So in the long run, eating the flesh of other creatures is detrimental to our health as well. In addition, where is the evidence that our body chemistry is actually altered by regular yet moderate alcohol use (or even frequent and immoderate alcohol use)? We are not talking about PCP or crack here. I would like to see some documentation to back up the *biochemical* addiction that comes from alcohol. You wrote: "If the Jew was so particular to insure all forms of leaven was removed from even the house during Passover why do we want to suggest they brought leaven in with the wine?" As was pointed out in another post, the alcohol during fermentation actually kills the yeast. I am sorry, but it really isn't even a reasonable argument that wine was not a staple drink in 1st-century Judea just as it is all around the Mediterranean today. That fact is that people drank wine then, at weddings and at dinner. Go to any European country, and you will see alcoholic beverages as a regular, non-controversial aspect of daily life. If you lived 300 years ago, this discussion wouldn't even be taking place at all. Also, there is no question that God made wine. That is clearly stated in Psalm 104:14-15. To deny that God made wine is to deny the biblical account. The tragedies that you mention in your post are not the result of God making wine, but man's abuse of God's gifts (as usual). You write: "If you want to argue Jesus made alcohol, understand you may be providing just the argument someone without your will power is looking for to get involved with alcohol. Personally I want no part of that involvement." Well, that is your right, but again you are saying that by speaking the truth that I would be leading someone into sin. That is not the least bit logical, Ed. Your whole posts smacks of implying, "If we say that God considers alcohol in moderation to be okay (even if it is true), the results of stating such a thing would be unthinkable." I must confess that I do not see a bunch of alcoholics waiting in the wings to embark on their drunkenness, stopped only by their church's prohibition on that first fatal drink. Lastly, you wrote: "Personally I would be more convince your not trying to self justify yourself if you said you never drink." I am not trying to justify anything, Ed. Please refrain from the ad hominem stuff and lets just stick to what Scripture says or does not say rather than trying to discover my "hidden motivation" for wanting so desperately for you all to be my co-dependents. :) --Joe! |