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NASB | Matthew 26:29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Matthew 26:29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom." |
Subject: What is 'the fruit of the vine'? |
Bible Note: Joe I respond in disregard of my better judgement. You accuse me of switching subjects to prove a point? No one has ever said there wasn't intoxicating liquids at the time of Christ. My point is that taking grapes and crushing them will not on their own turn into high test alcohol you are promoting, that is fact whether you or anyone else wants to admit that. I'm also saying the technology of the time did not exist that would allow grapes to naturally ferment without going bad. Fermentation today is done in a very controlled environment, and for a very good reason. Just a few spores will contaminate the mix. Everything is sterilized and washed and rewashed. Distilled water is used, specialized and developed yeast are added. Many mixing rooms are entered through air locks, the workers wear sterile clothing and rubber gloves. The gases are expelled through water locks so air will not be able to contaminate the mix. Even then a mix goes bad from time to time. Using the argument that Jews did this intentionally to preserve the fruit of the vine is without basis, and simply man’s justification for a fact that is not true. The fact are even if they could make high test alcohol which they couldn’t without the right preservatives or very controlled conditions it would continue to turn to vinegar in a short period of time. Ask any wine connoisseur that has kept a bottle of vintage only to find they have been keeping vinegar. That stands whether you agree of not. To preserve the wine for any length of time the Jews dehydrated the juice and made a thick paste or carried the process even further and created a dry film much like fruit roll ups of today. Alcohol is considered a toxin, and you want me to furnish proof it isn’t good for the body. Look up the definition of toxin. Alcohol is also a control substance, I wonder why? To make a comparison between food and alcohol is like comparing steak and arsenic, surely you don’t think that is very convincing. As for foreign countries believe me every argument you hold for alcoholic wine can easily be down played by that example. Drink the wine of the common Mediterranean family and I can assure you will have case of what is common called travelers malady in other words you won’t be needing exlax. Yet that is a primary point of your argument for having alcoholic wine killing all the bugs. Sorry it doesn’t fly. Does the church and its rules restrain? Yes! In fact I think that is what it is called to do. Be the salt of the world. I would think we would be abdicating our role to do anything less. Something you may want to ponder. Yes you are naive in the fact you think that you can use your God given abilities of debate to manipulate common sense or change fact. I hate Pharisaic legalism as much if not more than you. But I see no logical reason to throw gas onto a fire, especially when the facts don't support the cause. You say Jesus consecrated the use of alcoholic wine? Would you show me where, proving without a shadow of doubt and without question that he was in fact talking about alcoholic wine. I don’t think you can. Therefore why promote alcohol by continuing this thread. Is it to prove you have liberty? Yes you have! Now get on with it. Is it to convince me when there is absolutely no need I should drink wine? Is it to convince me something classified as a toxin and a controlled substance is good? Is it to convince me it is God’s highest and best for a Christian to drink alcohol? My point is when there is so much to lose and so little to gain what your point for supporting alcohol in the Bible? I would say to Tim I have nothing to discuss with you. Anyone that feels an obligation of instructing your child in the proper way to imbibe is to my point of view beyond any reasonable discussion. I stand in shock of a Christian of saying I’m teaching my kid how to drink. EdB |