Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26985 | ||
"Let's look at Luke 1:28" and Ephesians 1: 6 The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you." Luke 1:28 (NIV) And what is grace but God’s favor freely bestowed? Highly favored, full of grace, perfected in grace. The Greek work is in the perfect tense participle, “kecharitomene”. ”All of these versions use the word "favored" or "highly favored." The exact Greek word is used in one other place in the New Testament. Does it refer to Mary? No. Jesus? Nope. Then to whom does it refer? Let's take a look: “ Yes, let’s take a closer look. This is not the “exact Greek word” in both verses. In Ephesians 1: 6 it is “echaritosen” the aorist tense indicative form of an action brought to pass, grace bestowed on us. Greek is a much more precise language than English. "to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved." --Ephesians 1:6 (NASB) However there is a perfect participle in Ephesians 1:6.It is the “beloved” referring to Jesus. No comparison to us and him. We are aorist tense, He is perfect tense. ”Make Christ the center of your theology. He certainly is the center of Scripture! “ Christ is the center of my theology. My whole input began in response to a question about Mary, not Jesus. It is only the fact that Mary is the subject of this particular thread that may make it appear to you my theology is centered on her. It is not. Ask me about Jesus. We will probably agree on everything about him. I fell pretty certain this will not be acceptable to you but there it is. I am done with this thread. As I said before, ask we about Jesus and we will probably find nothing to debate. Which was not what I intended when I answered the first question on where Catholics get the idea of Mary Queen of Heave, I was just giving the correct answer. That is where Catholic get it. Others may not but Catholics do. |
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2 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 26991 | ||
Emmaus: These are the only times that ANY of the forms of that verb are used in the entire Bible. As a linguist, I can tell you that changing the tense of a verb does not change the action itself, but rather the time of its occurance and its frequency. Therefore, whether it is present or past or future, habitual or continuous or one-time does not change the fact that we are talking about a bestowal of God's favor upon individuals. The verb speaks nothing of Mary (or us) meriting such a bestowal. God gave favor to Mary. God freely gave it to us. That is the classical Protestant understanding of grace. Unmerited favor. You would think that if your understanding were correct that the New American Bible would have translated it "full of grace" like you originally suggested. Guess the most popular Catholic Bible doesn't have the Greek knowledge that you do... And we would have a lot to debate about on Jesus, I am sure. The Reformation was about more than indulgences after all! --Joe! |
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3 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 26992 | ||
When did I ever say Mary or we merited grace? We have no dispute on the definition of grace. You seem set on finding points to argue. That is not my purpose on this forum. I am here give my answers or notes on scriptual questions and to hear others. I do not attack them or their positions. If you can show where I have initiated an attack please do so. You have accused me of blasphemy, heresy and idolatry. I must admit I have grown to expect this from certain quarters, but I have never grown used to it. It is not a very good strategy for winning hearts minds or souls. |
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4 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 27006 | ||
Emmaus, thank you for your care and effort in answering some of my questions about the beliefs of Catholicism. I believe the only one remaining of those I asked is the one concerning the doctrine of the infallibility of the pope. I'm keenly aware that a funny thing happened to you on your way to the forum with my answers in hand. You ran smack dab (that's a good old Arkansas exression), smack dab into a rip-roaring debate. Well, anyway, I'm pleased that all participants survived -- bruised perhaps, but not mortally wounded -- and I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your efforts and truly feel that you are making an honest effort and doing an honorable job of presenting your communion's points of view, which is what I asked for to begin with. Pray continue. --Hank | ||||||
5 | "am I wrong in thinking that you pray to | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 27130 | ||
Hank, This will require multiple posts. As you may already be aware the Catholic position on Peter, the papacy and papal infallibility starts at Matthew 16:18-19. “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Anyone demanding a proof text that says literally: “the popes are Peter’s successors and are infallible” should read no further. It isn’t in the bible and you won’t find it here. A discussion of Church structure and authority also presumes a belief in a visible Church. Catholics believe in that also, based on their understanding of scripture, others may not. Catholics as everyone knows are not “ Sola Scriptura” or “Bible Alone” people. Which is not to say they are unbiblical people, opinions to the contrary notwithstanding. Infallibility is not impeccability. Popes can and do sin. Some few seem to have wallowed in sin. That is not what this discussion is about. Let’s start with Matt 16:18 in its context: Matt 16:13-19 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." At this point a few facts indicating Peter’s primacy among the Apostles seems in order. In the New Testament, Peter, under his various names, Simon, Peter, Cephas, Kephas, Simon Peter, is mentioned 195 times. The closest after him is the Apostle John mentioned 29 times. Whenever all the names of the Apostles are listed Peter is always first and Judas Iscariot is always last. Matt 10:2-5, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-17, Acts 1:13. Sometimes they are referred to only as “Peter and his companions” or in a similar manner. Luke 9:32, Mark 16:7, Acts 2:37. Peter is seen as the spokesman for the whole group in Matt 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 8:45, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69. |
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