Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | RoaringLamb | 90287 | ||
gracefull: I had just sent you a note on another branch and was about to sign off when I spotted your handle on this one. So I got curious and read through this discussion between you and Ed. I appreciate your desire to get people to THINK! Too often we start with what we "know" already and build from there (I'm talking from personal - as in "I'm guilty" - experience). Now I have made a habit of "starting from scratch" every week. That is, I reasses my basic beliefs -- I go back to the lowest principles on which I base my beliefs and try to disprove them according to scripture. I re-examine them in light of new knowledge or input from fellow believers. As a result, I have had to discard errant beliefs in favor of obvious biblical truth. I've just revisited Enoch and Elijah and see nothing that says they did not die. Now I know I sound like a heretic now, but let's discuss this before you decide, okay? What I ask is that you show me specifically the words that say Enoch or Elijah did not die and we'll take it from there. Here's my promise: if after several exchanges on this topic, you still think I'm off my rocker and you no longer want to hear from me, I'll honor your request. Fair enough? In Christ, Roaring Lamb |
||||||
2 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90390 | ||
Hi Roaring Lamb, That is a great way to begin! Let's get a foundation to begin.. You asked, "What I ask is that you show me specifically the words that say Enoch or Elijah did not die and we'll take it from there. Here's my promise: if after several exchanges on this topic, you still think I'm off my rocker and you no longer want to hear from me, I'll honor your request." But first we need to distinguish between physical death and spiritual death, because I have no problem with God translating someone from this life to the next escaping physical death either under the Old or New Covenant. If this is your starting point, you may have to begin with your points. But I do have a question about Enoch and Elijah escaping SPIRITUAL DEATH placed upon all mankind from Adam.. In addressing 'spiritual' death I would begin with Romans 5:14-17 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Now if spiritual death under the Old Covenant was to go to the holding place of the righteous dead as Luke 16 seems to indicate.. Luke 16:22 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. ....then how did Elijah go to 'heaven'. Did Enoch and Elijah not experience the 'spiritual death' pronounced upon all men? Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (should not see death) 2 Kings 2:11 11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (taken up to heaven) Let me know if my posts are unclear as communication can be a tricky thing. Secondly, I may not be able to respond in depth on any given day. My time is limited, and I am sure yours is too. God bless |
||||||
3 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | RoaringLamb | 90467 | ||
gracefull, Forgive me if I came off as being impertinent or even sarcastic. I was trying to lighten it up a little. I realize we are discussing important issues. Thank you for being full of grace, as your handle implies. And you're right, time is of the essence, so I'll be brief when I can. Also, I agree that we (Christians) have not properly understood death. Neither do I have a problem with God translating someone, or allowing anyone to escape death -- in fact, I'm quite happy that the majority of mankind WILL escape death, that is, the SECOND death. But for you and me, I'm not even concerned about that, because YOU AND I HAVE ALREADY BEEN TRANSLATED INTO THE KINGDOM THE SAME WAY ENOCH WAS! For an explanation, please see my note to Tim Moran lower in this branch, dated 7/24/03, 11:21 a.m. Better yet, go to the beginning of our exchanges and read them all in order. We can talk more later. God speed, my Brother! |
||||||