Results 1 - 16 of 16
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 89868 | ||
Hi Robert, I have been reading through this thread and find that the answers seem incomplete..for instance mommapbs said, "In some matters, God keeps secrets from us (Dt 29:29). How He will accomplish this is yet to be seen. It is here where faith takes over, FytRobert." I agree that He does not always disclose the exact path of prophetic fulfillment, but in the case of Enoch and Elizah there would have had to be a 'loophole' of some sort in the curse that came upon Adam and all mankind. The curse came upon all men. The priest were offering sacrifices for the people which still did not make them righteous...fytRobert has a valid question...how did Enoch and Elizah escape death? NOT just physical death but they were 'taken up' opposed to descending into Hell (the holding compartment) like everyone else? Romans 5:14-17 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) This may be a mystery... God bless |
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2 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 89890 | ||
Graceful "loophole"?? Your still putting God into boxes. When will you understand God does what He pleases. Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases. Psalm 135:6 Whatever the Lord pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places. EdB |
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3 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90106 | ||
God's own Word, which He swears by, is the essence of Himself John 1:1-3 'boxed' Himself in by covenant. God is not a covenant breaker. I agree with both verses above and do not see where God's Word of Covenant contradicts these verses. His Word IS His will. If His Word were unreliable He would be like mankind..unreliable. But we know God is faithful and His Word is ABSOLUTE we should not have any qualms about asking Him to reveal how this was possible in light of Romans 5:14-17. The answer is most likely hidden in His Word, but we can't see it due to our own 'boxed in thinking', which may or may not correct. God bless |
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4 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90121 | ||
Graceful Your right God's word doesn't contradict. Doesn't that give you a clue that what you assume to be true could in fact be wrong? If God's word doesn't contradict, then possibly your take that God said everyone has to physically die could be wrong. First we know Enoch and Elijah didn't. We also know that everyone alive at the time of Christ's return aren't. Those of us that believe in the rapture also expect not to die so there are many exceptions to the "Rule". You then go on and compound this by saying, there must be a 'loophole' for Enoch and Elijah. Could it be your "rule" is not a rule? When God said you will surely die He also said you will surely die that day. However we know both Adam and Eve lived long after that day. However they were spiritually separated from God that day and thrown from the garden. Therefore the death God talked about in the curse was Spiritual death not physical death. We die because we live in world tainted with sin, and we do not have access to the tree of life. There is no "rule" we have to die physically. Now before you jump all over Hebrews 9:27 carefuly read what it says. It is saying there is only one cycle. This was a defense against reincarnation not a rule that man had to die although he will unless the Lord returns or takes him. I have ben trying to show you that the things you declare rules are being violated and since we know God never changes nor does He lie, soemthing has to be wrong. What is wrong the things you declare rules are not. In other words what you say God has to do because God said He would, God in fact NEVER SAID. Graceful, you said, "The answer is most likely hidden in His Word, but we can't see it due to our own 'boxed in thinking', which may or may not correct." Graceful don't look for mystery where mystery doesn't exist. God did not write his word in such a matter to trick us or decieve us or hid important things from us. He wrote it as an open love letter. Your theology is built focused on the the physical while God wants us to focus on the spiritual. Earth is not our home, it is a place we dwell serving God awaiting our call home. Your more concerned about the physical body than you need to be. Jesus said don't worry about those that can kill the physical body worry about those that can kill the spiritual body. The fact remains each of us unless the Lord returns are going to die. And we will die of some disease. That is not what is important what is important is where we are going to spend eternity. Yesterday I watched a woman sing "God is all I need" with such power and conviction that my soul was exicted and my faith was increased. Why because I know this woman, she had a one son. He was a son any of us would have been proud to have. He loved his mother, he was faithful, honest, obedient, loving. There are not enough positive comments to totally descibe him. He was 18 when he fell from the boat he was on and drowned. His mother was shaken to the very core of her faith but let me tell you she never lost her faith and today she can sing 'God is all I need' and do it in such a way that any that knows her story knows God is all that she needs. Why did God call that son home? I do not know but this I know every time I see this woman I know God is worth serving. EdB |
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5 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90126 | ||
Ed, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are simply confused by the many posts here, and not actually misrepresenting what I said. So I will copy and paste my statement. "If God's word doesn't contradict, then possibly your take that God said everyone has to physically die could be wrong." Now I will go copy and paste what I said... "I agree that He does not always disclose the exact path of prophetic fulfillment, but in the case of Enoch and Elizah there would have had to be a 'loophole' of some sort in the curse that came upon Adam and all mankind. The curse came upon all men. The priest were offering sacrifices for the people which still did not make them righteous...fytRobert has a valid question...how did Enoch and Elizah escape death? NOT just physical death but they were 'taken up' opposed to descending into Hell (the holding compartment) like everyone else?" Please note carefully the LAST sentence. You may have to read through the thread to find it but someone else addressed this question from the physical death perspective and I was pointing out that escaping physical death is not the question. Escaping physical death is not something I have a problem with in this passage..but rather that Enoch and Elizah also seemingly escaped the spiritual death which is seperation from God.... How could that be in light of the fact that 'death' 'spiritual death' was placed on ALL mankind? If every animal in the world were sacrificed they would not have been 'Clean'. I do not have the answer, but all the answers I have heard here have only raised more questions. Which I am presenting for consideration. God bless |
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6 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90186 | ||
Graceful The same way Abraham escaped it, by knowing he needed a Messiah and putting his faith in the Messiah before Jesus came. Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Romans 4:9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. Galatians 3:7-9 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. [8] And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." [9] So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Loophole tsk tsk tsk EdB |
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7 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90244 | ||
"The same way Abraham escaped it, by knowing he needed a Messiah and putting his faith in the Messiah before Jesus came. Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness," I guess I am not making my point clear here... Abraham was under the Old Covenant and the Old Covenant saints went to 'Paradise' or 'Abraham's bosom'...not Heaven Genesis 5:24 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. 2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. None of the Old Testament saints went to Heaven because they were not yet fully redeemed... This is my point for discussion. Heaven Strong's #8064 1. heaven, heavens, visible skies a. as the abode of the stars b. Heaven as the abode of God If heaven heare is the sky, one can make the assumption that Elijah did not go to Heaven, but if Elijah went to Heaven...HOW? God bless |
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8 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90249 | ||
Graceful Elijah and Enoch were taken up, because of their faith, rightoeusness was accounted to them. Just as Abraham was deemed righteous by faith. It wasn't faith in themselves it was faith in the coming Messiah. "If heaven heare is the sky, one can make the assumption that Elijah did not go to Heaven, but if Elijah went to Heaven...HOW?" God took him. Again God is God He can do anything He desires. It isn't a loophole it is God's desire. You keep missing the point God is God He can and He will do what He desires. We may not understand it, we may not like it, it might not appear to be fair, it may even seem to contradict what we already know. but the fact remains God is God all we have to do is trust Him not try to impose our standard of performance on Him. EdB |
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9 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90255 | ||
God bypassed the curse placed upon all amnkind and made an eception of Enoch and Elijah? God violated His own Word because He is God? No, that does not wash... God bless |
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10 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90305 | ||
graceful Well then it was a "loophole" Nonsense. Once again look at Abraham and everyone that died looking for the Messiah because of their faith it was accounted to them as rigtheousness. Abraham was known as a friend of God not one in opposition to God as we were before we accepted Christ. Get you mind off living and dying and start thinking relationship, man with God. EdB |
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11 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90398 | ||
After all our posts, you STILL miss the whole point! Abraham went to Hades along with all the other righteous dead because of the curse...How did Enoch and Elijah escape? How was their relationship so good that they seemingly escaped the curse pronounced upon all mankind? God bless |
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12 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90443 | ||
Graceful And once again show me in the curse where it says everyone has to go to hades. Who missed the point? EdB |
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13 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90458 | ||
Romans 5:14-17 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. God bless |
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14 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90513 | ||
Graceful It says nothing about Hades. EdB |
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15 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | gracefull | 90539 | ||
So where did the 'righteous dead' before Christ actually go? They did not go to Heaven as Enoch and Elijah... God bless |
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16 | Searching for the truth | 1 Thess 4:17 | EdB | 90561 | ||
Graceful Now I'm not denying that everyone since the fall has died except Enoch and Elijah nor do I deny that everyone that died before Christ did in fact go to Hades. The point I'm contesting is that the curse issued a physical death sentence. It did not in itself. The results may be death but the curse itself did not carry a pronouncement of physical death. Many have come to believe that it did but misconception comes from our focus on the physical rather than the spiritual. God and Jesus both tried to get our eyes off our physical situation and focus on the spiritual situation. Jesus said don't worry about what can kill the body worry about what can kill the spirit. He said don't worry about you clothes, you food, you wealth seek first the kingdom and everything else will be handled. If death was required then the hope of the church “the rapture” would be a violation of it. However since physical death is never mentioned in the curse God violates nothing He has said or willed by taking Enoch and Elijah to heaven. EdB |
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