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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25514 | ||
Very good question! Too bad the others didn't catch on to that one! The key is to look at how the word "heorte" was used in the LXX; it turns out that you'll find the same answer if you take very careful note how the words "chaq" and "mo'ed" are used in the Hebrew text. Hint: it wouldn't makes sense to use the word "heorte" (feast in English) to refer to a day of fasting (such as, the Day of Atonement and the feast of Trumpets--both of which are?). | ||||||
2 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | srbaegon | 25521 | ||
Question................................... Could you share where you found that Day of Atonement and Feast of Trumpets were fasting days? Steve |
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3 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25526 | ||
Try this (I don't recall exactly where I learned that--good question): From Naves' Topical Dictionary: Trumpets, Feast Of • When and how observed (Le 23:24,25 Nu 29:1-6) • Celebrated after the captivity with joy (Ne 8:2,9-12) • See Feasts Atonement, Day Of • Time of (Ex 30:10 Le 23:27 25:9 Nu 29:7) • How observed (Ex 30:10 Le 16:2-34 23:27-32 Nu 29:7-11 Ac 27:9 Heb 5:3 9:7,19,22) |
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4 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | srbaegon | 25644 | ||
Thanks. I checked the references and found no reference to fasting during the Feast of Trumpets. However, there is a connection of fasting to the Day of Atonement in Acts 27:9 (see NASB marginal note). I can see that, since the people were required to humble their souls. So, my follow-up question is: Why did you call Day of Atonement a feast day? Or did I misunderstand what you said? Steve |
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5 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25652 | ||
Steve, you did misunderstand; I was saying the oppisite. The Day of Atonement and the feast of Trumpets (an oxymoron on the latter) are not feast days. Thus, they would not have been under the term "heorte" (feast; "holyday" at Col. 2:16 in the KJV and only in this place!). So, the only other place they could be is under "sabbatwn" for they were ceremonial sabbaths (Lev. 23:2, 4, 24, 32) | ||||||
6 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25686 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! While the LXX doesn't use the term 'heorte' directly with the Day of Atonement or the Feast of Trumpets, it does include them under that ruberic in Lev. 23:2. God tells Moses "these are my appointed feasts" and then lists: 1) Sabbaths - Lev. 23:3. 2) The Passover and Unleavened Bread - Lev. 23:4-8. 3) Firstfruits - Lev. 23:9-14. 4) Feast of Weeks - Lev. 23:15-22. 5) Feast of Trumpets - Lev. 23:23-25. 6) Day of Atonement - Lev. 23:26-32. 7) Feast of Tabernacles - Lev. 23:33-43. The chapter then ends with this phrase - "So Moses announced to the Israelites the appointed feasts of the LORD." Thus, according to Lev. 23:2 and Lev. 23:44, everything in Lev. 23 could be referred to as a 'heorte' or feast. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25692 | ||
Tim, The "trick" here in Lev. 23 is to note that vs 3 is sandwiched between vss 2 and 4 with distinct differences in each. The latter is the proper intro to the chapter. There's an article in Biblitheca Sacra published by the Dallas Theological Seminary in which an author looks closely at Israel's Annual Feasts. If you search on the ATLA Religious Index under the three words: "Israel's Annual Feasts" you should be able to find it. The point of the chapter is that each of these days are to be treatd as sabbaths and to derive their meaning and value from the seventh-day Sabbath. Now, within Lev. 23 there are other clues as well. In vss 2, 4, 37, 39, 41 the Hebrew word for "feast" is "mow'ed" ("appointed time" or "sacred season" would be a better translation so as to not get confused) ; but in vss 6, 34, 44 it is "chaq" ("feast" or "festival"). So, in the Hebrew a very clear distinction is made which doesn't show up in an English translation (btw, which one are you using? More difficult to search for the words yours used if the KJV didn't.). |
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8 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25702 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! Actually, I was using the LXX when I looked at Lev. 23. For my normal reading, I usually use the NIV. But, my Bible software includes most, if not all, of the major versions. I still think that you are being over-technicule concerning the word 'feast.' It seems to me that all of Lev. 23 would fall under the general ruberic of 'feast,' even if each one in particular isn't specifically called a feast. Verse 2 calls for Moses to proclaim the feasts of the Lord and verse 44 says that he did. Everything in-between would seem to fit that word. P.s. - According to my Hebrew text, Lev. 23:2 and 23:44 both use 'mow'ed.' 'chaq' is used in: vv. 6, 34, 39, and 41. 'mow'ed' is used in: vv. 2, 4, 37, and 44. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25707 | ||
Tim, "'mow'ed' is used in: vv. 2, 4, 37, and 44." "Mow'ed" means "appointed time" or "sacred season" not feast. So, the chapter opens and closes on that note. But, within the chapter, and elsewhere as well, in the OT a very careful distinction is made between a "mo'ed" and a "chaq" which also happens to show up in the Greek. I checked some 300 verses (don't remember the exact count) and found that neither the Day of Atonement or the feast of Trumpets was called a "heorte" and then I look at what the Hebrew counterpart of those verses said as well. What Bible software do you use? I'm using Bibleworks 4.0 right now and would like to get the newest version that just came out (along with about 1,000 dollars of CD's: commentaries and lexicons--checkout the software available from CBD when you get a chance!). |
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10 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25712 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! The LXX translates 'mow'ed' in Lev. 23:2 and 44 as 'heorte'. I use the Logos Library System. I recently found a free program on the internet that has a lot of potential (Theophilos). It is limited in resources right now, at least the free version is, but it allows one to create their own reference files. I haven't used Bibleworks! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25748 | ||
And how does the LXX translate the words "chaq" or "mow'ed" in relation to the Day of Atonement or the feast of Trumpets? | ||||||
12 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25785 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! The LXX translates 'chag' as: 1) 'heorte' in v. 6. 2) 'heorte' in v. 34. 3) 'heortazo' in v. 39. 4) I'm not sure which word was used in verse 41, the LXX is quite different. All the occurances of 'mow'ed' are translated in the LXX with 'heorte.' Thus, I would say, the LXX appeared to make very little distinction between the two Hebrew words, since they translated both with the same word! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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13 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25810 | ||
In vs 41 it is "eortasete". --- "Thus, I would say, the LXX appeared to make very little distinction between the two Hebrew words, since they translated both with the same word!" That's odd! Because when you look through all the uses of the word "heorte" you find that it is never used with either the Day of Atonement or the feast of Trumpets! And as I recalled the Hebrew kept a distinction between them and the rest. |
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14 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25874 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! It looked like in v. 41 of the LXX that "eortasete" was a translation of the "celebrate" in the last phrase "celebrate it in the seveth month." Neither word is used of the Day of Atonement or the Feast of Trumpets, but the bracket of Lev. 23:2 and 23:44 includes them in the list of feasts. I did some more research on 'heorte' and found that that the basic meaning is "appointed". So, I think that the word would still apply to all of the items. Here is the question though: What difference does it make? I haven't yet seen the significance! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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15 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25908 | ||
Tim, "I did some more research on 'heorte' and found that that the basic meaning is "appointed"." Where'd you find that out? I just double-checked it through the lexicon that comes with BibleWorks and the only two words it had were feast and festival. I'll see if there are some online lexicons. |
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16 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25919 | ||
I have checked the following sources: 1) http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html Condensed Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon OR Thayer's Greek Lexicon 2) http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Greek/ The New Testament Greek Lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; 3) http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon searching for appointed yields no results; appoint in ancient Greek finds one word: "prostasso"; in modern Greek: "diorizo" |
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