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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25086 | ||
"Now your saying all the translators that worked on the KJV, NJKV, NASB, NIV, RSV, and NLT and thousands of others are either idiots or in cahoots to bring forth a mistranslation of this passage." I said no such thing about anyone. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." ---- "Your also saying the majority of commentators many of which also held degrees in Greek are either also mistaken or also in cahoots to insure this lie was perpetuated." Actually I show that there are a number of scholars in the field who do have it correctly. Most of the sources I refer to quite obviously didn't do enough research into the issue (they, like all of us, assumed that they knew what the verse was talking about)--in a different field one said "Do you really think think that for what they are paying me that I'm going to read more than one book on the subject?" ---- "Further more your saying only Sabbatarians have discovered the true meaning of this passage and any that contradict it are wrong. (sounds a little cultic)." Whether those who studied this and found out what it says are sabbatarians or not I don't know; I didn't ask, I just went by the facts. Anyone who doesn't go by the facts will most likely be wrong--after all, what are the odds of finding the right answer when one doesn't look at the facts in the first place? ---- "Paul and the other Apostles recognized Sunday as the Lord’s day and therefore the day upon which to worship Him." The problem is that there is no evidence to support that claim. --- "I know God’s word is swift and divides marrow from bone, therefore more than capable of saying what it means and meaning what it says." You have got that right. So let's look at a couple of words that Paul wrote here in Col. 2:16: "brosei" means "eating" not what you eat but the act. "posei" means "drinking" not what you eat but the act of drinking. "kai" usually means "and" not "or" a fact that the RSV, the NRSV, the NAB, the Amplified Bible, Authentic New Testament, Cassirer New Testament, Holy Bible in Modern English, Jewish New Testament, New Evangelical Translation, Noli New Testament, Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Williams New Testament translations have correctly. |
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2 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | Morant61 | 25131 | ||
Greetings Djconklin! I have been reading some of your posts. If I understand your argument correctly, you seem to be saying that Sunday worship only began about 400 a.d. in Rome and Alexandria. If this is indeed your point, there is an historical problem since numerous earlier texts indicate that Christians worshipped on Sunday. Among those are: Justin Martry (whose writting date as early as 130 a.d.): In his first apology (chap. 67) he says, "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." Ignatius, who died around 100 a.d., says in his letter to the Magnesians (Chap. 9): "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things[7] have come to the possession of a new[8] hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance[10] of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith,[12] and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master--how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher?" and again in chap. 9, he says, "[13] Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."[14] For say the[holy] oracles, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread."[15] But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them.[1] And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days[of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, "To the end, for the eighth day,"[2] on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, "whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,"[3] who are "lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."" The Epistle of Barnabas says, " Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure."(6) Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead.(7) And(8) when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens" In his studies, Jusin says (chap. 18), " For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,--namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts." In chap. 32, he says, "(3) Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or Of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham." These are just some of the references I found doing a quick search. The evidence is clear that the Lord's Day was celebrated very early (100 a.d. at the latest) and that the attitude toward the Saturday sabbath ranged from tolerance to rejection. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25138 | ||
"I have been reading some of your posts. If I understand your argument correctly, you seem to be saying that Sunday worship only began about 400 a.d. in Rome and Alexandria." Greetings Tim! Actually, what the contemporaries of the timeframe you mention say is that Sunday worship did occur at Rome and Alexandria but that elsewhere they continued to worship on the Sabbath (Socrates writing earlier than Sozomen mentions only the Sabbath, while the latter mentions both days). While we can find some authors expressing positive attitudes about Sunday that is a long way from saying that whole churches woprshipped on Sunday. Then, of course, we also need ot consider where they wrote from. If they wrote from Rome or Alexandria then that in no way conflicts with what either Sozomen or Socrates wrote. I do agree with you that the historical evidence is "that the attitude toward the Saturday sabbath ranged from tolerance to rejection." |
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