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NASB | Romans 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 9:21 Does the potter not have the right over the clay, to make from the same lump [of clay] one object for honorable use [something beautiful or distinctive] and another for common use [something ordinary or menial]? |
Subject: Whats up with Judgement, calvinists plz? |
Bible Note: YOU SAID: “...both sides are 'defending' their position for the 'faith', when in reality they are defending their belief frantically (I speak of both sides) because they feel that if they are incorrect, they are somehow 'bad'. “ It is not that we think that it is “bad” but that it is incorrect. The Scripture tells us to “earnestly contend” for the faith. It tells us to preach the truth. Thus this is not a “frantic” effort, but based on what we should be doing. 2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. -- YOU SAID: “An Arminian or a Calvanist will look at one another and think, if I believed what THEY believed I know how I would act, so how can their beliefs not negatively affect their walk? We defend our beliefs because if, God forbid, the other person is right, where does that leave us?” I find it amazing that you can condemn, judge, and be critical of doctrines (though you are nice about it) before you study them and are able to rightly define the “error” (if any) in them. The Bible says to judge righteous judgment. This cannot be done without a proper assessment of the facts. I began as a pastor and that being an Arminian. I attended Arminian schools and graduated with honors from their institutions. But, when I studied the languages, history, and the complete text in context…. I came to the understanding of the Reformed faith. Then I went back to one of the Reformed schools. I will always be learning, but this one thing I know—the Reformed faith is correct in their assessment of the atonement. Every other system falls apart when taken in its complete form. See anyone can defend “something” as long as you do not progress into other areas, but once you do that, “something” will begin to take on a new face. I can make a study of car engines…and assert, assert, assert everything about them, but I can not get the automobile to go without the rest of the parts. Theology must be taken as a whole and not just in parts and this is where you will see the truth which will set you free (the whole)—continuously. Purchase a systematic theology go through it and see if you can discern truth from error and overcome their objections: Berkhof’s Systematic is good or Gerstner Theology in Dialogue has a different and interesting approach you may enjoy. --- YOU QUOTED: “Truth is not the sum total of all true things, it is a person.“ I agree the Bible is about THE person, but it is also about how He revealed Himself and desires Himself to be understood—theology. ---- YOU SAID: “Jesus says that he is the truth, and the truth will set you free.” True, but theology explains how this is done. Will or does a new convert need to know “all” this…of course not. Salvation is by grace alone. But one should grow and mature in the faith and keep what is rightly divided from the text….. Many today are given a “false” sense of assurance because another Jesus is being preached…. --- YOU SAID: “Not, it should be pointed out, our relative understanding of the truth, yet this is how we behave. If the 'truth' of Arminianism or Calvanism means we usurp another truth, that we are undivided in Christ, then what value is it? And yet, being human, we allow it to divid us, resulting in many denominations and arguments. I am not saying it is wrong to discuss things, or that some beliefs are clearly incorrect, I am just suggesting that our motivation for argument is a little different than we think.” I agree that we should behave correctly. We should also be able to take jokes and such. I guess I spent too long on debate teams, but we threw jokes back and forth all the time—clean ones, theological ones, not meaning any harm, just in fun mind you. So occasionally I let a joke or a comment fly, again not meaning ill harm (and I pray those here are mature enough in their faith to take a joke). But, I also believe in attacking “false” and “inconsistent” theology. Mind you the “theology” and not the “person.” We should be mature enough to understand that as well—think of Paul and the Church of Corinth, if ever one needed correcting, he corrected it, and he used love, sarcasm, and doctrine to do it. Yes, sarcasm (read 1 Cor 4:9; 6:7; 7:39; 9:7; 14:6, et. al.). There is ONLY ONE complete truth of all Scripture. Everyone claims to have, but no one understands it all. There will always be different denomination upon this earth. God saves in-spite of our “sin.” Though I would say to treat all in love and respect I would never say to embrace that which is false—for that is not true love or respect for God and His Word or others. |