Prior Book | Prior Chapter | Prior Verse | Next Verse | Next Chapter | Next Book | Viewing NASB and Amplified 2015 | |
NASB | Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 8:30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity]. |
Subject: Are those He called always chosen? |
Bible Note: Tim: Following my clarification of different views on free will, where is the biblical support that God's grace only makes salvation possible rather than makes salvation a reality for all who receive it? And the biggest question: what makes one person who receives God's prevenient grace trust in Christ and another who receives God's prevenient grace continue to reject him? Seems that in Arminian view, the former person would indeed have reason to boast, whether it be on the basis of his own goodness, or his intelligence, or his wisdom, or his clear-sightedness, or something. If anything in ourselves is required for God's grace to be salvific, even if it is only cooperating with His prevenient grace, then we do indeed have a reason to boast, and Paul was wrong. Calvinists do not take a few obscure words to try and "explain away" clear statements in Scripture. Calvinists realize that there are verses which are apparent contradictions when taken in isolation. However, when examined in the context of the passages in which they were written, the contradictions can easily be explained away. For example, in Romans 9-11 it is you who are trying to take straightforward statements such as 9:15 and say that God "really doesn't only show mercy to some and not others," despite the fact that almost anyone reading that without a predisposition to reject such a notion would come precisely to that conclusion. One has to ignore Pharoah's hardening of heart as an active choice on God's part. One has to ignore the fact that the very author of Romans was apparently not given a choice as to whether he was one of the elect or not (show me one shred of evidence in Acts 9 that points to Paul's free will in initiating his salvation). Despite your claim that it is Christ who was chosen/elect (same word in the Greek), God makes it very clear that it is a set of individuals who are chosen. Who does the choosing? Let's see: "Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness" --Titus 1:1 " Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure." --1 Peter 1:1-2 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven." --Mark 13:27 (Christ isn't gathering Himself here) "knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you..." 1 Thessalonians 1:4 "So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience" Colossians 3:12 "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." -- Thessalonians 2:13 "...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will" Ephesians 1:4-5 Over and over again we see that: 1. God chooses. We do not see one NT passage which suggests that God chooses us because we choose him. Every time a form of the word eklegomai, God is the subject and one or more Christians are the direct object. Never is it used of humanity in general, and the very nature of the word "choose" implies that some are placed in a different category than others. Scripture makes this clear that is is not based on us (or we would have reason to boast), but rather on the wise counsel of God (Ephesians 1:11). It is the Arminian who seeks to "explain away" the clear statements of Scipture. You may accuse the Calvinist of insisting that "all" doesn't mean "all" in all cases (without indicating the contextual basis for his doing so), but it is you, Tim, who are guilty of insisting that "chosen by God" doesn't really mean "chosen by God," but rather "chosen by God because man really made the choice." --Joe! |