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NASB | Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 8:30 And those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified [declared free of the guilt of sin]; and those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity]. |
Subject: Are those He called always chosen? |
Bible Note: I am not saying that the wor dis not being used in the same way. My agrgument is that one cannot conclude that the diect object is necessarily the same in every instance. Ofr example, the fact that the Greek word for "stoned" is used by Luke in Acts several times does not mean that the same person is being stoned in each situation. We see Stephen stoned. We see Paul stoned. The word is the same; the meaning is the same; the direct object is different. You write: "I believe that 'whom He foreknew' is a technicule term for Israel. " It may be a technical term, but what does it MEAN to foreknow? And are you talking about the Hebrew race when you say it refers to Israel, or the spiritual Israel which includes Gentile believers? On Ephesians, the fact that the exact word is not being used has nothing to do with the fact that Paul is obviously speaking about the same idea. The Greek word for predestined is used in both places, so obviously there is a connection. Incidentally, Peter uses the term "proginosko" twice himself, when speaking of foreknowing Christ's death in Acts 2:23. The word is linked to God's "predetermined plan." He also uses it in 1 Peter 1, when he speaks of being chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. Nothing about our role in God's choice. I am glad you believe in election. The problem is in whom you think does the electing. Calvinists believe that justification takes place through faith as well, just that regeneration occurs logically prior to that faith. Arminians have to invent the notion of "prevenient grace" in order to not fall into either the Calvinist position or the semi-Pelagian one. As far as Psalm 44, we need to be cautious in making a sweeping statement that a New Testament quote of an OT passage must refer to the specific group that it does in the original passage. For example, many Messianic prophecies come from the Psalms, where the apparent referance is to the Psalmist (e.g. David) rather than to the coming Christ. This is an interesting avenue to explore, however, as I have been keenly interested in how the Jewish peoples viewed such Psalms as messianic in nature. Later, --Joe! |