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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | Charlene the Mom | 35471 | ||
To John, Joe, Zach, Tim, Makarios, and all, Some thoughts/ questions: “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.” (James 4:8) and “If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you. (2 Chronicles 15:2) implies that atonement and/or reconciliation is an offer to be acted upon or not acted upon with God responding to our action. How does Calvinism account for this apparent choice that God is waiting for us to make or not make? Does Calvinism acknowledge any “free will” given to man by God? I absolutely believe that God knows the end tally or, if you will, who the elect are/will be. Then what is the big drawn out hoopla of our existence all about? I believe that to accomplish "one" of His purposes, He requires that we choose Him “first.” And what is "one" of His purposes? Well, you might accuse me of adding to the scriptures, but, here goes anyway. I believe that the whole history of the earth is to give us the chance to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to "ourselves" that we have chosen to receive or not receive. So there can be no doubt that God is not some big meany God doing this to us. I believe that when every individual person stands before God, that there will be NO argument, because in less than one fell swooping moment, we/he will be aware of every chance God gave us/him, and what our response was to it. Many think on this side of death that they will be able to reason with God as why they deserve “heaven.” In actuality they will know that it is/was not a beauty pageant; but it was a choice, their choice, and not God’s choice. His holiness will require the choice to be honored. The problem that I see with Calvinistic doctrine is that it “sounds” like the elect are in like Flynn, and the others don’t have a chance in Hades. And whether we like it or not, the reality is that this presents a huge stumbling block to many in and outside the faith. Well, I hope my train of thought was not too hard to follow. I have enjoyed reading all the posts over the last couple of hours, so I hope you don't mind me adding something. |
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2 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | charis | 35478 | ||
Dear Charlene the Mom, Greetings from Yokohama in the name of Jesus! I am now hosting some Tennessean volunteers for a mission building project here. They are from the Nashville area. If they stay much longer, I think I'll talk funny like them! :-) You wrote: "The problem that I see with Calvinistic doctrine is that it “sounds” like the elect are in like Flynn, and the others don’t have a chance in Hades. And whether we like it or not, the reality is that this presents a huge stumbling block to many in and outside the faith." With all due respect, I must say that just as many are turned away from Christianity by the thought that God allows us to choose to go to hell. In addition to these, I have heard many, many reasons for not serving Jesus. According to the Bible, Jesus Himself is the stumbling stone to those who do not believe. "Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." Romans 9:32,33 NASB. I think you will find that Jesus can be a Rock of Offence to followers of Calvin and Arminus alike! As for those in the world, ANY excuse to deny Christ is welcome. But if the Holy Spirit is working in their spirit, the life-quickening call of love and freedom is effective to save any lost soul. This is my experience, my testimony! I was against all things Christian, and the name of Jesus was a curse to my lips. But one sweet day He called my name and touched my spirit in the very midst of my anger and rejection, and I was His. I battled against the Holy Spirit, and swore not to serve God, but my will was no match for His. Hallelujah! I do not give this a fancy name or connect it to any moniker or bent. But irresistable was my calling, and I was a good resister. Some may want the credit for 'choosing' Jesus, feel it was their 'decision' that saved them. They may even feel they have the ability to maintain this grace. Yet I know that Jesus initiated my salvation, and the victory is His alone! (Please don't liken Jesus to a judge in a beauty pageant. Actually, the idea that our choice or our works will sway Him to save us is much more like this worldly method!) Friend, if God did not know you first, individually and personally, you would not be able to really know Him for who He is! The Author and Finisher of your salvation. Just a bit of the 'other side.' :-) Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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3 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | Charlene the Mom | 35525 | ||
Dear Charis, I appreciate all that you are saying so much more than I can convey with this keyboard. Regarding my comments about “limited atonement” as a stumbling block you said: "ANY excuse to deny Christ is welcome. But if the Holy Spirit is working in their spirit, …is effective to save any lost soul." I agree. To fault Calvinistic thought with the ability to keep away those who might pursue Salvation (and effectively stop the consequent ensuing pursuit of God) is to say that Calvinistic doctrine can undo God and His Will. So, apologies all around if I implied such a fallacy. This point reminds me of an incident some years ago when the movie, “The Last Temptation of Christ” was in the movie theaters in this country. Many churches of many different denominations protested verbally and physically. I, tend, not to get too involved in militant efforts however benign; although I do feel that God would have me know what I believe regarding these kind of issues, so that if He provides an opportunity to share that belief, then I am ready for His service. But to get to the point, my husband said, “that the protests to the movie were unnecessary, because God needs no defense.” My mind went immediately to this scripture, “When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him. “ (Luke 22: 49-51). The principle is the same, in that, if a person used that movie to reject Christ, then he would use anything. To credit the movie with the power to cause someone to reject Christ or to be fearful of the same is ludicrous if we understand who God is. And we/I should “permit even this”. My discomfort with “it” (like denominational differences that I, in my stupidity, think could undermine His purposes) is irrelevant if I know that God is in charge absolutely. But having said that I am commanded to “permit even this”, I would still like to express my thoughts/convictions on some matters; hopefully, without offending or causing division in the elect body of Christ. Regarding your statement: “(Please don't liken Jesus to a judge in a beauty pageant. Actually, the idea that our choice or our works will sway Him to save us is much more like this worldly method!) “ In my defense, we agree, as my quote was "In actuality they will KNOW that it is/was NOT a beauty pageant" the key word being "not." I have more, but have passed the character limits. If you are wish you can read the rest on the next entry under this one. Sincerely by His Grace, Charlene |
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