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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 34937 | ||
Dear Tim, My first response to this post was sent in haste and did not address fully the questions and conclusions that were included in it. In fact it is only now that I have the time available to devote to it the attention it deserves. My understanding of "all" in 2 Cor 5:14 is all thr elect. I base this on 2 Cor 1:1, which informs me who Paul is addressing: the church of God in Corinth and the saints in Achaia. To conclude that "all" refers to all mankind, does not seem to be supported given the context. v. 19 "God was reconcilling the world to Himself in Christ". This verse is a more difficult one to understand. (This is one of the reasons I love this forum, we are driven not merely read scipture but to dig deeper into it, emploring God The Holy Spirit to enlighten our understanding!) "Reconcile" here is in the form of a verb indicating an action or a process, not an accompished fact. Therefore, I am not persuaded to accept it as supporting your proposition that it supports unlimited atonement. If I am following your train of thought correctly, I would anticipate your reply to me to be that; God was reconcilling the world to Himself in Christ and it was accomplished when on the cross Jesus said "It is finished". Tim, Please correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. I ask myself, is that what he meant? Had He been successful in reconcilling all of mankind to God? Or maybe He meant that He had been successful to the extent that He made reconciliation possible for all the world. Does Jesus mean by "it is finshed" that, He has accomplished all the Father has sent Him to do, and now it is up to the free will choice of mankind to appropriate reconciliation for themselves? The position of the Refomers based on their understanding of Scripture is that when Jesus died on the cross He sucessfuly obtained reconciliation for every person that the Father had sent Him to atone for. Hence, Atonement is limited to the exact number of the elect and when the very last one of those number are brought into The Kingdom of God the end of this age will come. I will attempt to support my conclusion and address your other questins to me with specific scripture in my next post to you Tim. God Bless You and Yours(even now one of mine has something for me to do) John |
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2 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34957 | ||
Part II…………………………… Greetings John! In conclusion, let me address the meaning of the word ‘world’ in 2 Cor. 5. I have done this before for 1 John 2:2, but I think we need to look at how Paul uses this term. There is an established procedure for determining the meaning of words. 1) First, one must look at the immediate context. 2) Secondly, one must look at how a particular author uses the term in the rest of his writings. 3) Thirdly, one must look at how the entire NT or OT uses a particular word. 4) Finally, one must look at how the language or culture itself looks at a particular word. The most important of these four are the first two. Why? Because a particular writer may use a term in an entirely different way than other writers or the culture used the term. Paul was notorious for this. He would appropriate terms from the Greek language and use them in totally new ways. So, let’s look at all the places where Paul uses the term ‘world’. Does He ever use it to refer to a limited, particular group of people? Paul uses the word ‘world’ 45 times in 7 letters (I have excluded Hebrews since not all agree that Paul was the author). "World" in Romans (9 occurrences) a) Rom. 1:8 - "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world." b) Rom. 1:20 - "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." c) Rom. 3:6 - "Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?" d) Rom. 3:19 - "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." e) Rom. 4:13 - "It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith." f) Rom. 5:12 - "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—" g) Rom. 5:13 - "for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law." h) Rom. 11:12 - "But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!" i) Rom. 11:15 - "For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?" ‘World’ in 1 Corinthians (17 occurrences) a) 1 Cor. 1:20 - "Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" b) 1 Cor. 1:21 - "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." c) 1 Cor. 1:27 - "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." d) 1 Cor. 1:28 - "He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are," e) 1 Cor. 2:12 - "We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us." f) 1 Cor. 3:19 - "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: ‘‘He catches the wise in their craftiness";" g) 1 Cor. 3:22 - "whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours," h) 1 Cor. 4:9 - "For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men" i) 1 Cor. 4:13 - "when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world." j) 1 Cor. 5:10 - "not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world." Sorry, I'm going to have to post a third part! Tim Moran |
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