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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | benjamite | 34812 | ||
Hello Tim, You say that my view is logically inconsistent. I have presented what I believe to be solid Biblical support for the other four points of Calvinism, but I am willing to be corrected. I don't see Biblical support for Limited Atonement. You say that Calvinism is consistent if, and only if, one holds to all five points. This, in itself, is a difficult claim to make, because as proof of an "if-and-only-if" statement, you need to show how it is false with one side ("Logical consistency") matched with all other options of the other side (each point individually, any two points, any three points, or any four points). I do not expect that from you. That is really beside the point because whatever logic dictates, I care more about whether my view is Biblically consistent. Christ did die for all 1 John 2:2 "propitiation for the sins of the whole world" Romans 5:6 "Christ died for the ungodly (all of them)." Romans 5:8 may personalize this, but 5:6 says for "the ungodly" without qualification. John 3:16 "God so loved the world, that whosoever..." Hebrews 2:9 "He might taste death for everyone" God chose to save some - Romans 9 Man cannot and will not come to God of his own "free will" - Romans 3:10ff Once saved, saved forever - one cannot lose one's salvation - Romans 8:28ff; Philippians 1:6. Well, what do you think? In Him, Benjamite |
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2 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34815 | ||
Greetings Benjamite! Thanks for the quick response my friend! I realized after I sent my post that I had actually mis-worded my statement slightly. I should have said that one cannot logically hold to points 4 and 5, if one rejects 3. They build one upon another. For instance, one could hold the first four and say that God, having done everything else is not able or willing to see the process through to the end. One could hold the first three points and that God, having done the first three, simply doesn't bring the process to complete by irresistably calling those He has elected. Do you follow my drift? Now, under your construction (I hope you aren't offended by this in any way, I'm just sharing my view on the issue. It isn't intended as a put down of you my friend): 1) All are depraved. 2) God unconditionally elects those to be saved. 3) Christ dies for all. 4) But, God only irresistably calls those He has elected. The rest of those for whom Christ died are lost. 5) Those whom He has called persevere to the end. Do you see my problem with this system? Under points 1,2,4, and 5, how could those for whom Christ died be lost? You have set up a system where God dies for all, but never had any intention of saving all. Under Arminianism, the answer is simple. We reject points 2,3,4, and 5. No one was unconditionally elected. Christ died for all. No one is irresistably called. Since no one is irresistably called, perseverance (as defined under Calvinism) is not applicable. But, maybe I'm off my rocker! :-) Either way, I appreciate your participation on the forum my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | benjamite | 34823 | ||
Since you reject all but point 1, since according to Romans 3:10ff, nobody is righteous, nobody seeks after God, how then is anybody saved? In Him, Benjamite |
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4 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34853 | ||
Greetings Benjamite! Simple! John 12:32 says that at the cross He will draw all men. The cross is the one electing act of Christ in history. God desires to save all. At the cross, He atones for all and offers reconciliation to us. His Spirit then convicts and draws us, but we must respond. This makes sense of all the Biblical data. It accounts for the statements which say that Christ died for all. It accounts for the statments which offer salvation to all. It accounts for the the verses which say that God desires to save all. It also accounts for all the verses which say we must, believe, repent, accept, and receive His grace and gift. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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