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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 34708 | ||
John Adams, define "Limited Atonement" ... I do not see it in any to the Scripture on this thread. Searcher | ||||||
2 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 34794 | ||
Dear Searcher, I apologize for neglecting to include a scripture verse supporting my arguement for Limited Atonement. I'm still learning how to use this wonderfull forum that God has provided. I'll try to be more carefull in the future. Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". Matt 25:41 supports my contention that all are not saved. If all of mankind are saved (Thru having their sins atoned for), then to whom is Jesus referring in this verse, "depart from me, you cursed"? Limited Atonement is really a doctrine that puts the lie to Universal Salvation, the idea that all mankind shall be saved, and that no one will suffer eternal damnation. I have been trying my best to explain that the term Atonement means RECONCILIATION! Sorry, but I feel that if I do not shout it, some folks just won't hear me. Now we know if all were reconciled to God then all would have peace, but all are not reconciled, therefore the number of those saved is LIMITED. Agree? Disagree? Your Brother John Reformed, G.E.D. Don't rely on my poor scholorship (although I do posess a High School G.E.D. diploma), check your favorite bible dictionary and I'm confident it will confirm the definition I set forth. |
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3 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34800 | ||
Greetings John! Excellent post my friend! The only part I would disagree with is the assumption that unlimited atonement means universal salvation. Those who believe in an unlimited atonement do not believe that everyone will be saved, but only those who receive the gift of reconcilition. Consider the following two passages: 1) 2 Cor. 5:11-20: In this passage, Paul makes several very important observations about reconciliation (atonement). a) In v. 14, he says that Christ died for all. b) In v. 19, he says that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ. c) In v.19, he also says that this reconcilation of the world meant that their sins were no longer counted against them. d) In v. 20, Paul says that God is making His appeal through the ministry of reconcilation. e) In v. 20, Paul gives the content of the message, "Be reconciled". From this, it is clear to me that reconciliation (atonement) is an objective act done for the sins of every man, woman, and child who ever has or ever will live. All find forgiveness in the cross. However, it is also clear that this reconcilation must be received. If reconciliation is complete without our acceptance, how come the appeal by God? How come the command to be reconciled? If the doctrine of limited atonement were true, there would be no need for such an appeal. Those who are elect are atoned for, end of story. There are other passages that tie our acceptance of Christ's act to our reception of it. Consider the following passage: 2) Rom. 5:17: "For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." The whole passage is excellent for this topic, but for now, lets just focus on this verse. The whole passage contrasts and compares the sin of Adam with the death of Christ. Just as Adam's sin brought death on all men, so also Christ's death brings the possibility of life for all men. However, it must be received. Look at v. 17. The ones who reign in life as a result of Christ's death are those, and only those, who receive the gift of righteousness. Therefore, reconcilation is not the same as salvation. As someone else pointed out earlier (Zach† I believe), Salvation includes many things (Justification, sanctification, and glorification to name a few). The atonement make salvation possible. But, it has to be received through faith and repentance. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34908 | ||
Brother Tim; What a great post, and how wonderful are the Bibical truths which you expound. Concerning the individuals "receiving the gift of reconciliation I often use the word "appropriate" which to me means we must take for ourselves the free gift of salvation which is being offered and extended to each individual. Do you think the word "appropriate" is proper? In Christ zach† |
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5 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 34910 | ||
Greetings Zach† Yeah, I think "appropriate" is okay! The Bible uses several different terms: accept, believe, receive, ect.... Any of the terms will work, as long as we always keep the focus on what Christ did and does. I thought it was interesting to note that the command "be reconciled" in 2 Cor. 5:20 is an Aorist, Passive, Imperative, 2nd, Plural verb. What this means is basically this: 1) Aorist tense - The verb refers to a point of action. Reconcilation doesn't take place over time, it occurs in a moment. 2) Passive voice - This voice refers to an action done to or for us. So, reconciliation to God isn't something we do. It is something He accomplished for us on the cross. 3) Imperative mood - This verb is a command. Here is where the acceptance comes into play. 4) 2nd Person, Plural number - Paul is addressing all who need reconciliation. Here is where it gets interesting, how does a passive command work. Suppose I was in a marital arts class. The teacher wants to demonstrate a throw, so he says to me, "Allow yourself to be thrown." The verb is passive, but imperative at the same time. This is the case with the command to "be reconciled". Paul isn't saying that we iniate reconcilation - God did it all through Christ. However, he is saying, "Allow yourselves to be reconciled". The simplest analogy is still the best (and it is used in Scripture as well), salvation is a gift. We can't earn the gift. We can't work for the gift. We can't deserve the gift. All we can, or need to, do is to simply accept the gift that Christ offers to whosoever will. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Is Limited Atonement a "scandalous" Doc | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34913 | ||
Brother Tim; as always Thank you :) In Christ zach† |
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