Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Mommapbs | 134180 | ||
Angel - you wrote: "The wage of sin is death--this never stops being true, even for those who come to Christ and willfully chose to return to sin!" So then what hope or confidence do I have as a believer if Christ's death was not sufficient to pay the "wage" of my sin? Of what purpose was Christ's death if my sins result in death? As you noted from Romans 6 - When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. . . .You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. What does it mean to be set free from sin? Does it mean that I no longer sin or that I am set free from the "wages" of sin? Are you saying that IF we don't confess our willful sin, we will pay the wage???? |
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2 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | JCrichton | 134286 | ||
Hi, Mommapbs! The wage of sin has been paid in Jesus, yet Jesus Himself warns that not all who call Him Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 7:21-23; Luke 6:46); clearly, Jesus is warning that an empty word (saved, Lord, born-again...) is just that an empty word... He will look into the heart and discover the truth about every person who claims His Name! Those who reject Him by refusing to obey His Will will be cast out! When he announces that He is the Resurrection, He does not say that He is the Ransom for all but for many (Matthew 20:16, 28; 22:14; 26:28); not that His power was limited by any specific amount of humans being saved, but because not all would accept Him at His terms! (John 3:19-21) In Revelation 2:18-29 Jesus is not speaking to a mob of unbelievers or a gathering of atheists or people who were ignorant of the Gospels. He has given us time to repent from our old nature and to abide in Him... if we reject His Command and we lie with sin we make sin our master and we reject Jesus as our Master--we cannot serve two masters! To say that we have no sin makes God a liar--He has stated that none are righteous... but if we come to Jesus (no not go to a congregation and be baptised and claim to be born/saved, but abide in Jesus) He is Just and Loving and will receive our repentant heart and our humble obedience--even if we failed him 70 times 7 (just a matter of numbers--not that there is a limit to God's forgiveness of our trespasses!). Confessing our sins does not mean getting up on a stage and replay how awful we were before we met the Lord and how we ar now born again and partakers of salvation--living in a state of grace where no matter what we do we have a get-to-Heaven-free membership! Those who preach that sin is OK, that there is no need to confess our sins and to ask God for forginess are just as confused as the Pharisees and Sadducees that were guardians of the written and oral Law, yet they did not apply the text to themselves but to others... rejecting Christ, the Creator of all that exists on the grounds that He made Himself to be God! They rejected Him because He preached Love and broke the Sabbath in order to bring into the Kingdom of God the lost sheep! Just as a comparison: There were two criminals crucified alongside of Jesus... one rejected and mocked Him, the other opened His heart and spirit to the One True God and He repented and asked for Mercy--Jesus acted according to their obedience (one) and rejection (the other)! These two people were fully aware of Christ... perhaps they did not have the overall picture that the disciples and we have, but they were knowledgeable enough to make a judgment: one foolishly mocked and rejected Christ (no primise); the other humbly accepted his own faults and failures and asked for forgiveness (no he did not went into a repertoire of all his past deeds--Jesus looked into his heart and spirit), Jesus opened His Heart and cleansed him (he received the promise)! Again, in 1 John 1:9, John is not speaking to the unbelievers nor to atheists... he is speaking to other Christians and he is warning that those who claim to be above others (no sin) are only fooling themselves and that because we are in Jesus, He will forgive us, if we repent!--noticed that he did not say "when we confessed nor he forgave us..." Rather, John uses a clause "if" which demonstrates a cause-effect situation... "if we confess...forgive..." Convesely, the opposite must also be true: "if we do not confess...no forgiveness..." God Bless! Angel |
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3 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Mommapbs | 134294 | ||
Greetings angel - please do not misunderstand me - I am not "preaching that sin is OK and there is no need to confess our sin to God!" What I am saying is that we are forgiven by the shedding of Christ's blood, not the confession of our sin.(Heb 9:33; Eph 1:7) So I respectfully diagree with your conclusion: "if we do not confess...no forgiveness..." John declares, "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake." 1 John 2:12 He does not say they "WILL BE" - they "have been" - Christ's blood satisfied God's wrath against sin - His death paid the wage for my sin.(Rom 3:25;Heb 2:17; 1 John2:2; 1 John 4:10) Paul addresses the problem of sin in the life of the believer in Romans 7. Indeed,believers still sin but "if anyone be in Christ, there is NO CONDEMNATION!" (Romans 8:1) This does not mean that we will not reap the temporal consequences of our disobedience in our lives, namely God's discipline. I am NOT dismissing the gravity of sin; but the fear of discipline is not the best motivation for the believer to not sin! Robert McGee observed that when the prophet Nathan confronted David with his sin he did not accuse David of comitting sin against Bathsheba or Urriah, but against GOD! He said, 'Why have you despised the word of the LORD by doing evil in His sight?" 2 Sam 12:9 This is the reality of sin - it is ALL against God. Recognizing this humbles us and prompts a heart full of gratitude toward the One who became sin for us.(2 Cor 5:21) And it ALL was nailed to the cross. (Heb 8:12; 10:17) Hearts that respond out of gratitude for the forgiveness of God that is theirs IN Christ, obey out of "love" for God rather than fear - indeed, perfect love casts out fear. If you fear that by not obeying God you will lose your salvation, what type of life do you lead - one of performance. The focus is on self - what YOU do rather than what Christ HAS DONE and IS doing in your life today. This is salvation by works or Grace "and." We are saved by Grace, and kept by Grace - HE IS FAITHFUL - we are not. "for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day." 2 Tim 1:12 I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Blessings, mommapbs |
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4 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | JCrichton | 134344 | ||
Hi, Mommapbs! I think that perception of vocubulary is what causes much of the schism among Christians... We both agree that is is Jesus who is the Resurrection and Life... We simply disagree in how we define "abiding in Christ!" John declares, "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake." 1 John 2:12 True, this is so... but it is not a clear and cut case... because we are still living in the world and in the flesh, and the world and the flesh have the tendency to separate us from God: Do not love the world or what is in the world. If anyone does love the world, the love of the Father finds no place in him, because everything there is in the world-- disordered bodily desires, disordered desires of the eyes, pride in possession-- is not from the Father but it is from the world. (1 John 2:15-16) When we choose to sin we reject God's Gift and we cannot please God by ignoring His Will and callously refusing to acknowledge our sins and to ask forgiveness... One final comparison: Jesus told us that we are to pray believing that what we have asked of the Father we have/will receive (Mark 11:24; Matthew 21:22); yet this same Jesus instruct us to pray and ask constantly, without tiring (Luke 11:5-10)... these two seemingly opposite Scripture passages actually compliment each other: we ask God and we ask constantly not because He is unable to provide, but because He desires our relationship and we are ignorant of when and how He should answer are prayers... through constant fellowship we hone our abilities and understanding: I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5) We cannot abide in Christ in willful disobedience and in a life of sin! God Bless! Angel |
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5 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Mommapbs | 134346 | ||
Greetings Angel - Are you saying that a believer who willfully disobeys or has unconfessed sin will lose their salvation? You wrote: "the world and the flesh have the tendency to separate us from God" yet Romans 8:33-39 says otherwise. "Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;. . . For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." se also post 67879 by Hank. Blessings, mommapbs |
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6 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | JCrichton | 134390 | ||
Hi, Mommapbs! Again... we fail to share a common definition... God is the Creator of all that exists, He can make descendants of Abraham out of stones, He can reanimate dust into a breathing, living human being, He can turn to nothingness the mightiest of angels... so surely the diminutive powers of the world and Satan cannot even pretend to overpower Him... The difference between Scripture (your interpretation) and Scripture (my interpretation) is that I believe that though nothing has the power to keep us from God, God will not coerce nor manipulate us into submission... we must freely humble ourselves to Him allowing His Will to be done... Yet, when we willfully reject God and choose to serve the world, it is not Satan nor the world that battles God on our behalf--it is our own determination to refuse His Gift... Noticed how children, at least in the US, get to a certain age and begin to defy their parents... then after a certain dominion over their own lives, they reject all that has to do with the parents and embrace the world? Sometimes it becomes too much and the parents must, though extremely agonizing about it, let go of them... they must allow them to embrace all of the wrong values that they believe will bring them joy and happiness, and fulfillment... This is our relationship with God! He will never force His Hand on us! Yet, He cannot abide in sin! He has given us a choice (one choice), and we must choose Life in order to live! (Deuteronomy 30:19) If we stubbornly chose sin (death), we will gain exactly what sin's reward is: death!: because the outlook of disordered human nature is opposed to God, since it does not submit to God's Law, and indeed it cannot, and those who live by their natural inclinations can never be pleasing to God. So then, my brothers, we have no obligation to human nature to be dominated by it. If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die; but if in the Spirit you put to death the habits originating in the body, you will have life. (Romans 8:7-8, 12-14) Jesus put it in even simpler terms: Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) Paul, while ministering to Believers offered this admonition: You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. (Galatians 5:13-25) Clearly, Paul does not make allowances for those who are in the Spirit to remain in the concupiscence of the flesh and all of its elements!: “So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.” “do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature;” “If you do live in that way, you are doomed to die;” (Summary of Galatians 5-13-25 and Romans 8:12-14) God Bless! Angel |
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7 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Mommapbs | 134395 | ||
Just for clarification of your position: Are you saying that a believer who willfully disobeys or has unconfessed sin will lose their salvation? yes or no? |
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8 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | JCrichton | 134402 | ||
Hi, Mommapbs! We do not possess anything! Salvation is in Christ Jesus! He calls us to abide in Him! If we reject Him there is no salvation! Not that God will recant His Gift, but that we willfully reject to obey Him and abide in Him! I cannot put it any simpler. Salvation is not a guarantee do as you will God is obligated to cleanse you because you claim a few Scriture clauses! Salvation is abiding in Jesus! (John 15:5) We are warned that we must continue to depend on Him... doing as we please is never a Biblical mandate! God Bless! Angel |
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