Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Rowdy, Rowdy, are you sure? | 1 Tim 2:9 | DocTrinsograce | 132418 | ||
We should never give ground quickly or easily in any area of doctrine. That is, quite possibly, a more serious problem than the original error (James 1:8). You have focused on the phrase "the traditions of men" and used it to effectively negate anything that I might say. Of a truth, I am no more interested in embracing the traditions of men than you are, Nobel. Without knowing them, how do we recognize them? Without knowing them, how do we scrutinize them in the light of scripture? If we can't do the latter, how can we know not to jettison something inspired and committed to men by God? You are very kind and loving, sir. I appreciate that very much. Those virtues are well worth emulation. Furthermore, only the fool despises rebuke. So I have carefully weighed your thoughts. I will not discount every thing you say by labeling it and denying that any of it is of God -- doing that is not of the Spirit. I will continue to "test all things, and keep that which is good." While I "study to show myself approved." We are men, we operate in the world of ideas. Although it might sound spiritual to say that we can rise above such things, that is not very rational. Ideation is a way in which God has made us like unto Himself. Reason and knowledge are not to be scorned. God is, after all, eminently rational. I am grateful and praise His name that He has not left us with no other tool than the mind. We have the all sufficient Word, His Holy Spirit, and we are new creatures. Together these are more than adequate for the renewing of our minds. Thus, our great battle is to remove the lie, no matter how disguised, and replace it with the truth. Theology has a bad connotation to many modern people. Partly, I believe, because of some of the movements in the sixties and seventies. You might recall that there was much of the division and denominationalism that you spoke about during this time. These folks claimed they had found something better. Whole new non-denominational denominations were formed, and now have grown into some of the largest churches in the land. Sir, you state that you need help practicing what Christ and His apostles taught. Won't "He who spared not His only son, give us all things unto godliness?" He has empowered us with His Spirit and with truth. The Sermon on the Mount, for example, is entirely unsuitable for the world. It is not an evangelistic message, instead it describes the regenerate follower of Christ. Look at the Pauline Epistles. Lets take Ephesians as probably the simplest example. The last three chapters contain over thirty imperative statements. I used to despair over that, complaining, "Paul, how do you expect me to keep all these rules?" I had missed the point of the first three chapters. There is not a single imperative statement in the first three chapters. They are entirely theological. Consequently, as any good American would do, I thought, "Let me get past all this fluff to the brass tacks. I want the practical stuff." What I failed to understand was that theology (what we know and think of God) always comes before obedience (how we walk in His statutes). Almost all of the Pauline epistles are structured this way: theology then practice. You have chosen well in desiring to practice what the New Testament teaches. Christ defined the kind of love we were to have when He said, "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them... loveth me." Note, however, that this was after His statement "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Our freedom to apply His teachings are rooted in knowing the truth. Sir, I understand that my message is odious to many. I call us all to a disciplined life of the pursuit of holiness and the embrace of sound doctrine. God is deserving of nothing less. He has equipped us with all that we need to live such lives. It is an antinomy that He has sanctified us and yet calls us to lives of greater sanctification. However, considering what He has done for us, can we offer Him anything less than our entire, strenuous, devotion? Our entire bodies, souls, and minds? In Him, Doc |
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2 | Rowdy, Rowdy, are you sure? | 1 Tim 2:9 | Aixen7z4 | 132462 | ||
The idea of evaluating all available traditions in order to accept or jettison them, I am not sure of. I am not sure that it is worth the time, or necessary. The other idea, that knowledge is necessary for obedience is so obvious; I am surprised we find the need to mention it. When we obey God, it is with an awareness of him and our relationship to him. It is also clear that we must understand what he has asked us to do. Thank God for thus revealing himself, our relationship with him, and his will for us, thus motivating us to obey him. When God gave the Ten Commandments, he began by saying who he is. “I am the Lord they God” (Exodus 20:2). The people knew who was giving the commandments. Though they did not have the literature and the scholarship with which to discuss him, God had given then a show with sound and light (Exodus 19) to give them an idea of his presence and nature. This came after the ten plagues, the crossing of the Red Sea and other examples of his love and power. They were aware of who he was that was commanding them, and that was enough. “And all the people answered together, and said, ‘All that the LORD hath spoken we will do’” (Exodus 19:8). It is consistently clear and obvious that God tells us who he is and who we are before he tells us what he wants. As you say, we see it in the epistles. We see it also in the Revelation. “These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand … ‘Repent, and do the first works’”. And the sheep hear his voice, and they follow him. What I find is the Lord saying, “Behold your God” Isaiah 40:9. He delights that we would seek him (Acts 17:27) and that we should know him (Jeremiah 9:24). He says we should know his will (Ephesians 5:17). He says, “If you know these things, happy are you if you do them” (John 13:17). “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein” (Revelation 1:3). What I do not find is the Lord saying, “Study your God”. I find it sad that people would be discussing evidences for the existence of God and strange the people would be trying to analyze him for his omniscience, his omnipresence, his omnipotence, etc. Notice that these characteristics are not the ones listed in Jeremiah 9 (loving-kindness, judgment, and righteousness) or the ones in Exodus 34 (merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth). What is the difference? In one case, man is the scientist and God is the object. In the other case God is the sovereign and we are his subjects. What I do not find is the Lord saying to study his words. It is a fine point, because some equate searching the word with studying the word. Some scholars, incredibly, use “Study to shew thyself approved” to mean to make the word of God the object of intellectual exercises. Some believers read the word “Go” and they know what the Lord is saying, and they go. Some spend a lifetime studying words such as “Go” and they never get around to going. I never cease to be amazed at those who can analyze and explain the word “Love” to the nth degree, and yet they do not love. Their very presentations are characterized with so much pride and arrogance and aloofness, attitudes that one would not associate with love. The best experts in the word can also be so rude, so impatient, so dismissive, in their interactions. Yet they can explain the details of 1 Corinthians 13: that love is patient, love is kind. They do not show that they have learned to practice love. Yet they can explain why the simple expectations of our hearts are off base. Knowledge is necessary to obedience, but it seems that we can go too far in seeking knowledge, and forget to obey. God wants us to know him well enough to worship and to obey him. But it seems that it is the very awareness that God is too much for our minds that causes us to worship him. It may be, as Solomon says that study leaves us tired and too much study leaves us too tired to worship or obey. Yes, I know that some will say the more we understand God the more we will worship him. Some people never had a Bible. That includes Abraham back then, and the illiterate man in the jungle today. Some have only limited portions of the Bible in their language. Yet they have learned enough to respond to God. Thank God for the scriptures. We should read them. We should saturate our minds with them. We should seek the Lord and his will in them. But we can go too far. Some of us have gone to school to study the Bible. (It is not clear that we should have done that). But some have gone beyond that, to attach ourselves to particular schools of thought. That may be going too far. In so far as it fosters and maintains division within the church, it is clearly not desirable. The study of the word of God would have led to clear disobedience of the word. Surely they have studied the exhortation that there should be no schism in the body. |
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3 | Rowdy, Rowdy, are you sure? | 1 Tim 2:9 | Morant61 | 132470 | ||
Greetings Aixen7z4! You made the following two statements: "Some believers read the word “Go” and they know what the Lord is saying, and they go. Some spend a lifetime studying words such as “Go” and they never get around to going." And, "Some of us have gone to school to study the Bible. (It is not clear that we should have done that)." Concerning your first statement my friend, why would you make such a generalization. There is no either/or between studying and doing. One cannot 'do' what God wants unless one 'knows' what God wants one to do. :-) I have always been amazed that so many try to create false dichotomy between scholarship and spirituality. One does not have to be ignorant to be spiritual. :-) While it is certainly true that Abraham did not have a Bible, we do. And, we do because God willed it to be so. So, should we ignore it? Concerning your second statement, it is no more wrong to study the Bible in school than it would be to study counseling in school. ;-) If we were all perfectly obedient to God's word, there would be no schisms in the Body of Christ. However, there are always those who either stray from the truth for lack of knowledge or who deliberately prevert the truth. The New Testament itself is filled with examples of inspired authors confronting the false doctrines that were current in their day. Should we simply ignore false doctrine so that we can pretend that we are in fact united? You also wrote: "Thank God for the scriptures. We should read them. We should saturate our minds with them. We should seek the Lord and his will in them. But we can go too far." This is far different from the attitude expressed in Scripture my friend. Ps. 1:2 - "But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night." Ps. 119:11 - "I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you." Acts 17:2 - "As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures," Acts 17:11 - "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Rom. 15:4 - "For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." 2 Tim. 3:15 - "and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." I simply can't agree that we can 'go too far' in saturating our minds with God's word! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Is there a way to get back? | 1 Tim 2:9 | Aixen7z4 | 132478 | ||
Hello Tim: I think we need a balance, a suitable combination of knowledge and practice. You have also mentioned spirituality, and I will give some thought to that, what it means. But I’ll say this about the other two. In school, we divided our time between lecture and lab, between study and practice, and that was good. I think you will agree. Would it not be good if we could do the same in church? It might force us to focus on the knowledge we intend to put to use. It might make us more proficient in doing the will of God. I am suggesting that we need to know the word of God well. I do not think that we can go too far with that. I said we should saturate our minds with the word of God. Maybe I should have said “supersaturate” instead. Maybe I should have said “overflow” as that might give us enough and to spare, so we could share with others. Is saying we can go too far I did not mean that we can get too much of the word of God. On the other hand I say that studying every doctrine of man is unnecessary. If we concentrate of the truth (John 17:17) then we will be prepared to recognize and deal with error. If we know the word of God, we need not know whether Calvin or Arminius agrees with us. This is not to say we have no need of teachers. It is to say we have no need of favorites. We should be careful if we find our studies leading us to say, “I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas”, much less to say, “I am of Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Whitfield, Toplady, Edwards, Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, Schafer, and/or John MacArthur”. Listen. I know that denominations exist and people have favorite Bible teachers. Have no illusion that my writing here will put an end to that. Paul did not put an end to it by writing what he did in 1 Corinthians 1 and 3. But I would appeal to us to come together around the scriptures. I think that discussions of traditions will only serve to strain the chains that bind us. The other fact, so apparent here, is that these discussions lead us away from the practical applications of the word of God. How did we get to this, when the question was about the way we dress? I think it was good that we talked about helping those who may not dress the way they think the Lord wants, and how the church might help them. It may be that we’re needing more of that. But now we are getting to rules of thumb and principles by which traditions get their doctrines, and we seem to have come off the field. I fear it will only come to a competition as to who has the best rules of thumb. Better to get back to the original topic, I think, and to see how we can encourage people to behave the way they realize God wants them to, and how we can encourage the church to help them. I hope this explains why I would decline an offer to learn more about one of the traditions. Does anyone want to offer some ideas as to how one can encourage churches to support those who are trying to practice the word of God and having difficulty doing so? I just got a call from a sister who is having problems. She is so distraught because of the response she’s gotten from her pastor! She is inviting me to invade their meeting on Sunday or Wednesday to talk to him. Does anyone have scriptures pertaining to that? That is the type of need I see, and it seems to be in line with the thread the way it started. If this request is out of line, I hope you will still find it in your heart to be kind in your responses. |
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5 | Is there a way to get back? | 1 Tim 2:9 | Morant61 | 132491 | ||
Greetings Aixen! My point wasn't to get to learn a certain tradition my friend! That is your choice! :-) I was simply concerned that you sounded very anti-scholarship. Thanks for the clarification. Concerning your invitation to 'invade' a meeting. I would highly discourage that tact. If you feel that this is a situation that needs attention, you should contact the pastor privately - preferably face to face. A public 'rebuke', whether deserved or not, will probably not end well. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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