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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | gracefull | 83110 | ||
John, "My last point is that if Christ had died spiritually as well as physically, it would mean that the Trinity would not have existed as such during the time between His death and resurrection." I do not understand this statement. Please define 'spiritual death' so I can understand your reasoning here. It is my understanding that the spirit, whether man's or God's will never 'cease to exist' or expire. So to me spiritual death for man in sin is eternal seperation from the Father in hell. Conciousness and awareness never ceasing. So to say Jesus 'died spiritually' is not to say He ceased to exist but rather was seperated from the Father spiritually. The question here then would be...Did Jesus experience spiritual seperation from the Father when He was made sin for us. Does not the majority of theologians agree that Jesus was spiritually seperated from the Father when the sins of mankind were layed upon Him? Jesus Himself said "My God, My God, why have your forsaken me?" Did the Father forsake the 'man' Jesus and not the God part of Jesus? Or was the redemption actually God sacrificing Himself (the Word portion of the trinity) for sin? Just some thoughts... God bless |
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2 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | justme | 83112 | ||
gracefull: The misnomer that Jesus went to hell is taught is some groups that usually do not believe in the trinity. Scripture says Jesus bore our sins, and by His blood shed on the cross we are saved. Dis not Jesu say to the repentant thief today you will be withe ME IN PARADISE? Not hell. Many early church fathers believed Jesus was refering to Psalm 22, whenJesus was repeating "My God......" Can God who is present every where and is all seeing turn his back on anyone? God may Judge us, punish us, but Christ was God! Can God turn against Himself? To come close to a Hank Hanegraagg words. the lie that Jesus went to hell is a lie from hell itself. I pretty much agree. Just some thoughts... Justme |
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3 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | gracefull | 83118 | ||
Justme: "The misnomer that Jesus went to hell is taught is some groups that usually do not believe in the trinity." Now I am even more confused. If 'Abraham's bosom' was a department of Hell that held the faithful dead such as Abraham and Jacob..and Jesus preached to the dead in Paradise, He must have gone at least to a part of Hell. This is the common belief among all mainstream denomininations, is it not? Yet you seem to be saying that people who believe He went to Abraham's bosom or the holding place that one do not believe in the trinity? Help me understand...because maybe I am just not hearing you correctly. I am not at all being antagonistice either just in case it sounds like it. Secondly: "Can God who is present every where and is all seeing turn his back on anyone? God may Judge us, punish us, but Christ was God! Can God turn against Himself? To come close to a Hank Hanegraagg words. the lie that Jesus went to hell is a lie from hell itself. I pretty much agree." Spiritual death was experienced by Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, as well as the unfaithful dead. Scripture indicates they were in seperate parts of hell. Now whether you believe Jesus went to Paradise as the holding place or the place of torment and exited through Paradise, the fact is He 'descended' which was spiritual death. I am having a very difficult time even understanding what the question is...Did He descend into the place of torment where Lazarus was or whether He went only to Paradise, it is still hell. But the subject of spiritual death should not even be in question here! He descended and was seperated from the Father. this seperation bagan while He was on the cross when he cried, 'My God, My God..." God bless |
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4 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | justme | 83120 | ||
Graceful: With due respect, your theology is a real eclictic. No, most mainline Demonations do not believe Jesus went to hell! The bosom of Abraham was not the hell fire and eternal seperation that the unsaved go. In no way do accept that Jesus was seperated from the Father at anytime! Jesus was proclaiming He had fullfilled Psalm 22. Jesus was perfect. and did not sin. He bore our sins on the cross, by His Blood we are saved. I don't believe anyone on earth understands the Trinity well enough to explain it so clearly they can say this is the triune God. At best we fumble around using examples that fit within the scope of our earthly minds understanding. Duet. 29:29. I only know that all three are one, with destinct personalities. What ever that means. But when Jesus was on the cross the Three in one were all there. Jesus said He was in the Father and the Father was in Him. The Holy Spirit presense was there in the supernatural taring of the vail in the Holy of Holies, and the earth quake and the opening of the graves. I have no human wisdom to explain the Trinity. Do you honestly believe God would allow a created being (satan) to torture Jesus who by Him was everything created by, and without Him was nothing made. Col.1 I am not tring to make you upset but this is a very serious point of that the Godhead is over all, and would not allow satan to torture Jesus Christ. Peace. justne |
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5 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | gracefull | 83156 | ||
Justme...Now you have jumped forward to a different aspect of the discussion. Did He go the the place of torment or did He go to Abraham's Bosom which was within hearing range of the place of torment, but all...Abraham's bosom, the place of torment where Lazaarus went or the lake of fire....all three are catagorized as part of Hell. This was not what the discussion was about. Please re read my post...I did not say as you seemed to hear, that Jesus went to the place of torment... I said,"He must have gone at least to a part of Hell. This is the common belief among all mainstream denomininations, is it not?" Acts 2:27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. The question was, "Did Jesus die spiritually?" Whether you call Hades Abraham's Bosom, or interpret it as the place of torment where Lazarus was...it is still Hades..Hell. The question was, what is spiritual death? I believe Ray gave a really good response to this question. "I am not tring to make you upset but this is a very serious point of that the Godhead is over all, and would not allow satan to torture Jesus Christ. Peace." Thank you, and nor am I. But the fact is Jesus came for that very reason...to suffer the penalty of death we would have suffered, to take our place. This is the truth of the gospel my brother! Jesus was God come in the flesh to pay the penalty of death WE DESERVED. Jesus the Word died our death for us. Maybe we can discuss this more later. I am out of time. God bless God bless |
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6 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | justme | 83163 | ||
gracefull: I do understand your question. Jesus did physicaly die, as the death we die now. That is not "Spiritual death". Romans talks a lot on the second death which is "spiritual death" this second death is for those who have rejected Jesus Christ. Jesus did not suffer "spiritual death". There are those in the Word of Faith movement that teach this doctrine. I don't believe the Word of Faith movement is a demonation in the same way as Lutherians, Southern Baptist and the like are. I do believe it is growing at a rapid pace. Which from my perspective is a serious concern. We have been over that, and I do not want to bring resentment to the surface. All I can say is The Bible by it's self stands, and anything that does not fall in line with Scripture I reject. I wish for peace. justme |
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7 | Define 'spiritual death' | 2 Cor 5:21 | gracefull | 83177 | ||
"Romans talks a lot on the second death which is "spiritual death" this second death is for those who have rejected Jesus Christ. Jesus did not suffer "spiritual death"." "There are those in the Word of Faith movement that teach this doctrine." This is not relevant to the study. If we on the forum can keep the study to scripture, we all can benefit. True...but prior to Jesus' death the dead in faith were kept in Abraham's bosom because it was not possible that the blood of animals could cleanse them. After the resurrection of Christ, the order of things changed...Abraham's bosom ceased to exist (as I understand it) So Jesus was still under the Old Covenant. "I don't believe the Word of Faith movement is a demonation in the same way as Lutherians, Southern Baptist and the like are." These are the ones I was referring to... Read my post to Ray. Also now answer the question. The scripture I quoted in Acts 2 is speaking of Jesus? Do you see Hades as as Abraham's bosom? I Abraham's bosom a department of Hell? Was Jesus God? Did God the Father 'forsake Jesus' as Jesus Himself said? If Jesus/ God went to Hades (descended)seperated from God...spiritual death...due to our sin.... "All I can say is The Bible by it's self stands, and anything that does not fall in line with Scripture I reject. I wish for peace." Absolutely! God's Word is the only Truth....I agree!If you will answer the above questions, with scripture, I believe you will find them to be true. Remember, I am not addressing the teaching that Jesus went to the the place of 'torment' where Lazarus was..that is another subject. This is GREAT! We have actually had a discussion (somewhat Biblical) and remained courteous! there is hope! God bless |
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